Exploring sustainability and collective action in retail, with ethical textile atelier Bawn: A COP 26 Special

Our first guest of the series is a special to coincide with COP 26, the UN Climate Change Conference which, if you’re listening to this on the day of release, started yesterday in Glasgow. So, who better to talk to than a business based in the city, which has sustainability at its heart. Today we’re speaking to Bevan from Bawn - an ethical textile atelier in Glasgow’s Southside, a place where you can find sustainably made, ethically sourced fabrics and textiles. 

Bevan is a huge believer in the local high street, and that some things are made to experience in person - particularly when it comes to something as tactile as textiles - a belief that  began in her earlier days working in a haberdashery in her home city of Dublin. 

We talk to founder Bevan about how she brought her training from the world of museums into the world of retail, how she supports customers to navigate the ever more complicated world of ‘shopping ethically’ and how she has led a group of like-minded individuals to create her own, unique response to COP 26 - creating something which shows how much more can be achieved when we pull together, as she tells us about the project, Cop Twenty Stitch. Enjoy! 

Transcript

Independent Thinking  0:09  
Hello and welcome to independent thinking the podcast exploring a new era for the high street. We celebrate independent business and bricks and mortar retail across the UK, those who are shaking things up on their local high streets, and who believe in the potential of our town and city centres. I'm your host, Alexandra, welcome along

Welcome back, and welcome to series four of independent thinking. It's a pleasure to have you join us. Thank you again, we've had a long break over the summer. How was yours I hope you've had a lovely time. And we're ready to fully embrace the pool of autumn in all its glory. And we are a year old you might have seen this on Instagram. It's very exciting and to celebrate apart from coffee, a glass of champagne throughout the rest of the series, we will be revisiting some of the guests from our first series to check in to see how their businesses and plans have changed since we last met. Stay tuned for a bond hot and Holly grows returning later in the series, both of whom who have seen significant change one moving out of the high streets and non moving into it. As well as that we'll be delving into the many various challenges impacting retailers at the moment from supply chain concerns HGV driver shortages, Brexit COVID, we'll be looking at all of it, we'll be speaking again to Dr. Sarah Montano, who joined us last series and helping us make sense of it all. As well, of course, we'll be speaking to award winning independent retailers and thinkers from across the country, from shops to developers who are thinking about commercial space differently, and who have real optimism about the future of bricks and mortar retail. So, lots to look forward to. Before we introduce our first guest of the series, though, a couple of notices. Parish notices, if you will, a we would absolutely love it. If you redid the show, or left us a review, if you've been enjoying the series. So far, it makes a huge difference in higher Apple put us in that algorithm, you know what I mean? Pushing it up and put it in front of more ears. So thank you so much if you have already done so. But if you haven't, please do consider it, it's really makes a huge difference. And lastly, I am delighted to tell you that we know how a Patreon page for the show, which will enable you to support us. So for the price of a coffee a month, you can get access to bonus content, and the knowledge that you're supporting the creation of something you love. For details of how you can pledge your support share to the show notes supporting the show it means I can keep creating it buying new equipment a go and do more out and about moreover and reporting and also helps keep the show ad free. So thank you. So let's get to it. without much further ado, our first guest to the series is a special to coincide with cop 26 The UN Climate Change Conference which if you're listening to this on the day of release started yesterday in Glasgow, so who better to talk to then a business based in the city which has sustainability at its core is for me to say today we're speaking to Bevin from Bonn and ethical textile atelier in Glasgow side, a place where you can find sustainably made ethically sourced fabrics and textiles to create your next project, if you like many others have become inspired to take that sewing machine back out of hibernation. Textiles are an integral part of our lives clothing us furnishing our homes or workplaces. Even the transport we use to get around. They tell a story. They reflect our times. Whenever technology advances, we see that reflected in the textile industry creating new techniques, new materials. Look around wherever you are right now and you'll see countless examples of the textile industries fingerprint on your life, hand dyed synthetic, natural recycled hand woven. They keep us cool or warm keep out the elements can exhibit status, even your beliefs in the world and so much more. And yet, as bonds website explains, they are also one of the leading global issues negatively impacting our ecological, cultural, social and economic climate. Founder Bevin is a huge believer in the local high street, and that some things are simply made to experience comparison particularly when it comes to something as tactile as textiles. I believe that began in her early days working in a haberdashery in her home city of Dublin. We talked to founder Bevin about how she brought her training from working in textiles and fabrics in the world of museums into the role of shopkeeping how she believes she can support customers to navigate the ever more complicated world of shopping at the Queen and she has led a group of like minded individuals to create her own unique response to cop 26 creating something which shows how much more can be achieved when we all pull together as she tells us about our project cop 20 stitch enjoy

A very warm welcome to you to start our brand new series, our episode one of series four, at a very interesting time. So welcome Bevin to the show to the show.

Bevan, Bawn  5:14  
Thank you so much for having me and inviting me to participate in success.

Independent Thinking  5:18  
Oh, absolute pleasure. And you will kick off in a really exciting time for Glasgow, obviously, all eyes are in Glasgow, what this really exciting time and a very sort important time was at the start of cop 26. And it feels like a really fun time to speak to somebody who's running a sustainable business with kind of ethical principles at at your core. So we'll we'll come on to that in a moment. And we'll kind of delve into that in more detail. But first, I wanted to get a little bit into how you got into all of this. No, so you are conservative by trade. So I've come from the world of museums and kind of and working with with textile. So I feel like you're in such a good spot to know exactly what makes textiles last and what makes them what principles and kind of what makes up you know, why does textiles or art design the way they are? So tell us first of all, how did it how did you get from being and working in a museum and all of this to being a shopkeeper? What is? Can you tell us a little bit about that journey that you've you've been on?

Bevan, Bawn  6:23  
Absolutely. Well, my background originally was in fine art. So I went to the National College of Art and Design, and did my bachelor's there. And it was just at the end of the art. And my tutor introduced me to the idea of being a conservator. He knew that I you know, liked structure and textiles. I wasn't the excuse the artsy fartsy type, and kind of just knew, he just knew through what I had been doing for four years that I liked, kind of nurturing something. And yeah, so that's how I got into it. And I spent between my VA and becoming qualified. So those three years, I worked in haberdashery in Dublin, where I'm from, and kind of worked in and out of different museums helping out and kind of getting more experience. And I then came to Glasgow to be qualified for two years. And and it kind of I've worked in museums, ever since for a couple of years. But I kind of was feeling a little bit bored.

Independent Thinking  7:34  
What does what does a normal day look like for

Bevan, Bawn  7:37  
a can for a textile conservator? A lot of people think, you know, it sounds very exciting. And it sounds very exotic. And it can be you're working with amazing artefacts. You know, very, very ancient tapestries and costumes from anything from the, you know, 15/16 century to the present day. So you could be really, you know, you're very privileged, yeah, to be in the same room. Like, being able to touch these things and conserve them with you know, specialist knowledge and equipment. And, but textiles take so long, they're very laborious. So you could be potentially working on something very sanitary. for months on end, I think the longest object I've treated was a tapestry for the burl collection for the new reopening next year. And I think I spent just over a year wow, conserving the tapestry. So it's painstaking, painstaking, so it's a whole year of sitting and looking at the same object for seven hours a day it looks nothing like nothing out not nothing else to do, but you really are just there and focus and it became for me just too boring.

Independent Thinking  9:09  
Fair enough.

Bevan, Bawn  9:11  
Yeah, yeah. And it lacks that kind of creativeness. Some, some of the practices are very by the book. So they're, they're very much along the academic line of, well, this is what this paper says. So, you know, we kind of there's it depending on who you work for, what organisation or museum, it can depend on how experimental you can be in your treatments. Okay. So you're sometimes you kind of get a bit stuck or you're unsupported by the organisation because maybe they don't have the funding to allow you a week to train yourself in a new technique, or it's all time and money and time and money and time and money. So, but yeah, I was kind of lacking that. That original creative flair that I kind of wanted to regain. Yeah, and didn't allow that. So, hence kind of just jumping, sideways and love.

Independent Thinking  10:05  
And obviously you must have really enjoyed those days of working in a haberdashery a word by the way, I love the word haberdasher is like that. Isn't it beautiful? It's a beautiful word. So you must have really enjoyed that to think actually, I want to start something myself.

Bevan, Bawn  10:19  
I did, I think when I was working there it was, you know, the part time job, it was a means to an end it afforded me, you know, what I wanted in my early 20s. But I did it for just over three years. And it just in hindsight, I realised much later on. That was a job that I loved going to every day, I loved the people I worked with, I enjoyed the customers, I enjoyed the chat, I enjoyed problem solving, with people's, you know, projects or just figuring stuff out. Yeah. And it was, you're always, you're there on somebody's day to say hello, and have a chat. And, you know, we've had some I had some really interesting customers who were going through a hard time or really happy customers, and you just meet a whole spectrum of people. And it's, you know, I didn't realise until later as I say that, how much I really enjoyed it. So yeah, I just and I think it comes back to being a child as well as like, Oh, I'd love to play shop. Like, so enjoy.

Independent Thinking  11:30  
And there's also something really satisfying I always think this is for me, it's at the heart of why I find it so fascinating. There's something so satisfying about you just selling something and then having to replenish it and then sell again, I feel there's something really lovely about just very simple. And that's not to that's not to denigrate any people's work. But

Bevan, Bawn  11:51  
yeah, and just even I think my favourite part is just wrapping something in little bit of tissue pop in a sticker on us. If they want a little bag, and they feel like you've just gone that little extra touch. And it Yeah, just makes you feel good. And they're happy and you're happy. And you've had this really pleasant exchange with a stranger essentially, exactly. But I've met some fabulous people through bond now and, and people who will be lifelong friends, which is also lovely. Starting to get a few more people known by name, it's very hard with masks. Yeah. Because you kind of you spent all of lockdown kind of recognising people on Instagram and, you know, messaging back and forth. And, and some people have come in saying, Oh, I'm such and such on Instagram. And I was like, Oh, yes, I actually I recognised your topic. Like, I know who all these people are. They all know me by name, but I don't know them by name. And I feel there's a little bit of our there's a little I wouldn't call it, that attention is the right word. But there's a little bit like, Oh, God, I'm really sorry. I actually don't know. You're Yes. You seem to know so much about me. And I kind of recognise you, but I kind of don't. Yeah, and and Yeah, but I'm getting better at kind of recognising the the people who are coming in, we're often the funnel to know them, which is lovely. Yeah,

Independent Thinking  13:19  
it's one of the most special parts, isn't it? So you made so you talk about a sideways move. So when did that, like snap into place for you and think, Okay, this is, this is what I want to do. And this is when I'm going to make the move?

Bevan, Bawn  13:32  
Well, it was actually it was a very particular day, in July 2019. Okay, and somebody told me that the job that I had, you know, really thought I really wanted for a long time, which was to be the textile conservator at the National Museum of Ireland. The previous conservator had retired maybe about six years ago, and they never refilled or post. And I always thought I got that something really cool to aim for, and it will be lovely. And then the job finally came up. And I had been in Glasgow a couple of years, met my partner here. And I was just like, I don't want that anymore. You know, I just I just, it was just on that day being like, the thing that I wanted for so long is just not on my list anymore. And I kind of analysed a I didn't want to move back to Dublin for various reasons. And be was I really enjoying the job that much to move country again. And, and I was like, No, I was totally loving my life here. And it wasn't worth that, which I think if you told me five, six years ago, I would have dropped everything. And and that was the kind of pinnacle moment where I thought, right, well, if I'm going to do something else I'm going to have to think and I knew straightaway, I was like I know in the back of my mind what I wanted But I never ever thought it was possible. Like, it's just one of those things you think? No. Like, that's something that other people do. But it's actually I hope you don't mind me name dropping, it was people like Jen from Wildhorse pottery, and Rebecca from love and squalor. And a few different people are in Glasgow, who were female, my age had just gone bit the bullet. And I thought, well, they can do I can do that. Yeah, like, I think I can do that. So I spent a couple of months, just sitting on it, writing a few notes and gave myself a deadline to the end of the year. So that if I was still thinking of going for that I would have to act on it from January. So I gave myself what, five, six months to just talk to people tinker around on a notebook. While I was working as a textile conservator, I'm, and then from kind of the December I'd already been like, No, this is happening, like, let's go. Then lockdown. Oh, man, that was it was all fine.

Independent Thinking  16:10  
So you had all these ideas, and presumably, you were doing this in kind of weekends, you were doing it in late lunchtimes anytime you could find spare, you were just sort of thinking, right? Yeah. And we can he contacts

Bevan, Bawn  16:22  
me, my partner was a chef. So at the time, he was working a lot of late nights. So that home in the evening, I come home and just spend like, an extra six hours on my laptop, just researching and, and it became very, I'm kind of a workaholic, I don't really stop. So it didn't seem like work or a chore. It was just this exciting pastime for a while, that became not so much.

Independent Thinking  16:48  
So yeah. So you had this idea. And you've done it seems like a huge amount research, which actually isn't surprising, given your background in kind of understanding work, because presumably, you had to do a huge amount research in your line of work and being used to being quite analytical and getting a building a picture. So then scattered a little bit by by that little bit, perhaps not, maybe it did give you that time to think it did. It

Bevan, Bawn  17:13  
did it definitely like so I originally thought that sourcing the textiles would be the easiest thing. I'd be like, I don't know. And I'm not a computer person. I'm very hands on with everything. I'm a pen and paper girl. So I didn't know anything about graphic design, or websites or no bit about photography. But nothing about editing photos, none of none of the things that you like, none of that checklist. I had none of it. I had fabric and textiles. But actually, to my surprise, it was the complete opposite. So I find it really hard to find the companies that would I could buy from in small quantities that were you know, sustainable and ethical. And from business owners that actually recognised what I'm trying to do and not trying to sell me the earth when I couldn't afford it. And anyone who I work with now I have quite a good relationship with even if it's just through email. But it was the other things like the branding and website design and stuff that that actually came much easier with help from others, obviously. But, but yeah, lockdown happened. And I was sent home from my job, I can't conserve tapestries in my home, they are astronomically in size. And I wouldn't have the insurance to have. So I was sent home. And I had plenty to get on with. So it didn't bother me. Oh, yeah, no, I'll be busy.

Independent Thinking  18:50  
Yeah. Because the coffee was filled days.

Bevan, Bawn  18:55  
If I could, I kept myself very, very lucky. If I could do lockdown. Again. I wouldn't change a thing, I would totally do it. I don't think the business would be where it's at today without lockdown for many reasons. And because the first lockdown was, you know, from March to July, I went back to work in July and launched the website in August. So that whole period was kind of getting all my ducks in a row for the website launch. And then I worked my way back to my full time job and the website until Christmas. And then we were sent home again. And that's when I started working on the Kickstarter for because I'd already pretty much prematurely financially security premises. So I was like, right, well, no, this is the next kick and to kind of see get to the next I see it all it all came very quickly.

Independent Thinking  19:50  
So let's go back a little bit cuz I'm really curious about this principle of being an ethical and kind of sourcing sustainably because how Before we go into the continue with that strategy, I want to pick up how we touched a little bit with them, our guest meander, who talked about how it is getting a little easier to track these fabrics down, but it's still a challenge. And I think about where they're made and what and who's making them. And what's that? What their, their supply chain, like, how so that was always at the heart of of the business, then it was always really important to you. And how's how has that been? Me? Yeah, and sourcing product? And like you say, it's been a bit of a challenge?

Bevan, Bawn  20:32  
Yeah, I think it kind of stems from just working backwards. So while you think you might have got to the source, actually, there's 10 steps prior. Okay. So it's, it's, for me, personally, it's understanding the chemistry and biology of the fibres of fabric. So how they're grown? What, what are the properties of these fibres? Where in the world they are grown? How much water do they need? So it comes to what actual fibres are most sustainable? And then from those fibres? How do we get sustainable you know, manufacturing and, and things like that. So the main fabrics that I source are organic cotton, linen, then is kind of their, like a modern rayons utensil and eco viro Akufo, which are manmade, but natural. So they're derived from natural products, but they are trademarked from certain companies that make the product the man made processes, sustainable. So it's kind of a long winded, I see. But they're, they're essentially dissolved in chemicals, and then extruded through these machines to make fibre like false fibres. I see. Okay. But yeah, so it's a third array on family. But not all rayons are sustainable. It's yeah, it's complicated. Good. So and then you're looking at certifications. So there's various organisations around the world that certify and go right back to, you know, they, they want to know, where the crop was grown, and that there's no pesticides, and then who, everyone from who, you know, farms, the land to cards, the wool to spins, to weaves to dyes to washes, the whole process is tracked. So for example, cotton is certified as organic from God says the global organic textile standard, that's the most common certification. And yet, they certify from crop to shop, basically, Oh, very nice. Nice phrase. And then there's, there's other ones like the Soil Association, and, and then linen is slightly different, because it's often certified by guilds. So you're, you have this whole spectrum of trying to figure out the best solution. Now, I don't think personally, that there is such a thing as a sustainable fabric. So everything has a footprint, it's just where it falls on a spectrum of this as bad for the planet seeds better. Okay. So there's no like, winner. It all like so organic cotton, for example. It uses more water, it needs more water to grow organic costs, and not so you've got these completely not have Yeah. And, and it's all down to the consumer or the customer to, to know this, to understand the processes to know what they're buying to just be more aware. And just consider all the different pros and cons of a fibre. So wool, for example, is very sustainable in one person's eyes. And it's really not so sustainable in another. So in one sense, yes, it's the, you know, well, from a sheep's back. The farmers don't want it often. And but it's like a natural insulator, it's you know, it's a natural antibacterial, keeps you more all those things, but it's also the sheep themselves are bigger producers of meeting them case. Right. Okay, you know, so you've got that kind of, but also the sheep are brilliant for the sort for soil. And so you've got all

Independent Thinking  24:49  
yes really complex

Bevan, Bawn  24:51  
using complex Yeah. But then, you know, and then well, to make the world that you were requires An astounding amount of water for washing. But then once the once the garment is made, you don't actually you shouldn't really wash water very often. It's, it's, it's a self cleaning fire, it's much more manageable, but it does have it's not so good parts, you know, the process isn't as easy as it sounds. And that goes, goes for a lot of fibres. There's pros and cons to them.

Independent Thinking  25:27  
Because I'm thinking you don't you have a background in understanding textiles. But and it's, it's, and you find it complex as, and there's so many others. So it's such a minefield, isn't it in terms of understanding? Do you feel it's a is? Do you see part of your role as a shopkeeper in actually educating about all of this?

Bevan, Bawn  25:49  
Absolutely. And I'm still learning all the time, you know, I'm really I'm, you know, I'm by no means I'd come I wouldn't call myself an expert, I passionate about trying to just get to the very core of things, when I can, you know, I mean, it takes a hell of a lot of time to go down the rabbit hole, and then come out with useful information. Another example would be people saying, Oh, can I buy this online, they said, people are worried about, you know, the carbon footprint of getting things delivered. And yes, that's a, that's a very fair and genuine concern. But on the grand spectrum of something being manufactured to being posted to you, the postage of something is just a drop in the ocean of something's carbon footprint. So I don't feel like it should put people off the way it seems to be doing. I think there's a lot more carbon footprint from your products. And just the

Independent Thinking  26:52  
the interesting, it's like, we kind of concentrate on the things that are maybe things that we can influence more, which is understandable. But yeah, we're putting our energies in the wrong in the wrong place, perhaps

Bevan, Bawn  27:03  
we kind of are where we're basically, I feel like my generation, our generation, we've just been given so much information. And we've been, we're, we I feel like I personally, I can't speak for everyone, but I've become or was very unquestioning and very, like non critical of what I'm being told is something, whereas now I'm becoming far more inquisitive and questioning and critical of everything, but like not to, like, be a broken record. But I'm just like, I have to really go back and figure this out a bit more. Because what you're selling me isn't actually what you're selling. There's, there's loads of different there's so much more to the chain. And I think it's just kind of understanding or doing your best to understand the, the, the traceability of what we what we buy and have in our homes and what we eat. So people are very concerned about eating organic fruit and vegetables, but they'll still feel fine about wearing of head to toe polyester. And that seems to be fine. And it's totally Yeah, you know,

Independent Thinking  28:16  
gosh, it's so it's just it's so interesting to I think I mean, I think being inquisitive is pretty much at the heart of it progress, actually, I think in in, you know, being curious, staying curious and actually thinking that it's not really right, or is that actually going one step further, this quest does take time as a consumer, particularly where there's definitely a lot of dark hearts being done around supply chain that that's what's so interesting about the situation we're in now with, with us getting to see the complexity of the supply chains, and how all that all just sort of honour, either on a knife edge of light, it doesn't take because it's not doesn't do much. Obviously, we've been through a huge amount, but what I mean is, it just takes one thing to come out of the chain or one thing to be disrupted. And I think we're all starting to understand. Alright, actually, these these are huge. These were you know,

Bevan, Bawn  29:08  
these are huge things, just the box that you put something in, you know, if that isn't in the supply chain, you're not getting your product. Yeah. Yeah, they're not going to sell it to you without packaging. Yeah, no, it's because it's part of their design and part of the whole Yeah, exactly.

Independent Thinking  29:26  
It's so fascinating. So with that being at the core of your idea then and all of the time of you setting up your business, I guess how did then that become the reality too because what I find really interesting as well is that you had an online offer obviously when we couldn't do so much in person but it feels really important to you that it had to be a physical shop had to be somewhere where they could really feel the fabric and they could sort of guess sense of what this was all about.

Bevan, Bawn  29:55  
Definitely, and and people would people come into the shop everyday that is open. And they're so delighted that they can walk in and touch the fabric. And I think fabric is one of those things that if you're buying fabric to make those yourself, you can't you have to know what it's going to feel like you have, you know, if you're going to put so much time and energy into making a garment for yourself or anything for yourself or for somebody else, you really have to know the fabric. You can't, you can't really get a full sense of it from a little sound. If you know you can. And the other thing about fabric shopping as opposed to clothes shopping, is you can send clothes back now, that's another story. That's something

Independent Thinking  30:43  
we will again, I can do another podcast in itself. Yeah.

Bevan, Bawn  30:48  
But the idea is like, it's so wait, if somebody, if I could two metres of fabric for somebody, and they didn't like it, and then I take it back. It's kind of not the done thing for fabric shops to take the fabric that's been caught because it is waste. Yeah, you might have to wait for, you know, a couple of weeks or a couple of months or I don't know, it could be two hours before somebody wants to meet Exactly, yeah. So it's kind of you have to try. There's no kind of try before by you've to know what you want. And it just decreases the waste of of textiles that way. Yeah. And other patterns that people work from, it will tell you based on your size, what size you want the garment to be, how much fabric you want. But then there is waste attached to that as well. Kind of going off, off off topic a bit. But there is a whole other spectrum of clothes, clothing design, and which is a zero waste. So this, okay, is a new kind of move. I would maybe it's a movement, but a new stream of garment design, which is based around zero waste. Okay, so you're making kind of garments that, you know, there's nothing left over. Which is is just an interesting thing to be yes, it's gonna be I'm gonna say the next big thing, but it's it's very beneficial for everyone. But it's not to everyone's tastes, not everyone wants to wear over.

Independent Thinking  32:24  
So I was gonna say, is it quite boxy sort of stuff quite boxy.

Bevan, Bawn  32:27  
It can be or it doesn't have to be there's, you know, there's, I mean, it's engineering, and it's

Independent Thinking  32:32  
fine. Oh, wow. Yeah.

Bevan, Bawn  32:35  
I've yet to kind of delve a little deeper into it. But it really is. That's so clever. It's really cool. Yes, very good. So,

Independent Thinking  32:45  
so that bit bit kind of owning that. And I think having that relationship with your customers as well and being able, and actually what's really interesting is that it just is such a stark contrast to all the things that you were talking about with being a conservator in terms of it being sedentary and you being off in your on your order with Yes, and having those like you

Bevan, Bawn  33:03  
are like looking down to the shop and, and because it's COVID times and people are wearing masks and having hand sanitizer, but people are still asking, oh, can I

Independent Thinking  33:15  
please yeah.

Bevan, Bawn  33:17  
Oh, I love it. And then they they una over the textures. And they're like, Oh my God, I didn't think they would feel like this my lips on the website or, and it's different. Like, I know, somebody a family member asked me before, when the website was launched, and before the shop came, they're like, do you really need to open a shop? Like, do you really want to put yourself through all that? Stress and money and I was like, there's so many things that you can buy online, but fabric is just not one of them. You know, it's one of those things that you just can't it's just you don't buy your nice coffee and pastry from an online. Yeah. And it's the same with fabric. You do need to know what I feel. Yeah,

Independent Thinking  34:00  
absolutely. Particularly if people are making an investment as an These are fabrics are going to last they're going to be things you wear forever. And actually, have you seen is there because I know that you've got you stock books as well about kind of making and creating kind of clothes or quilting or is there been a real interest in that? Have you seen that kind of grow and people thinking actually I might give it a go or maybe I'm thinking great British sewing bee or in the public consciousness of repeating things or

Bevan, Bawn  34:28  
yeah, there's there's a whole and I wouldn't say it's like coming back because it never went away. But I think it is in well, I don't want to like toot my own horn but having a shop that is aesthetically pleasing and have a modern touch compared to other shops. You know and I've also made a conscious decision that it's it's without very much patterns. I don't stock fabrics that are polka dotted or florals or anything like that because it it basically cuts ate half of your customers, I'm not that kind of person, I don't want to buy flirty things. And, and there's so much there on the market that is that. So I really wanted to provide a space where it's black colours, they will be in circulation for much longer. You won't tire of these. But also, I've plenty of male customers who are coming in with, you know, a face of relief being like, Oh my God, not another polka dot. Yeah, like because they'd go, you know, I've been shopping for fabrics before and I've walked out empty handed because I can't see good quality plain fabrics through all the polka dots, and butterflies and trash. Yes. It's just like, hang on a second, were just the good plain fabrics. And so that's what I'm providing people coming in wanting to, like, oh, I have a sewing machine. I should really get it out again. Yeah, now that I know that you're here. And actually, I like these fabrics. Well, now I can, I know where I know that there's somewhere now I can go to get my fabrics and my materials. And and pick it up again, there's a lot of people picking it up again, and picking it up for the first time. Because now that there's somewhere local that they can be supplied with. And it saves them going into town to other shops or buying online. Yeah, people are generally

Independent Thinking  36:23  
very, I love that. And I'm glad to hear it. And I think something bringing a modern touch like you see it because it can be quite twee, there's definitely started tweeting us that I chintzy ness to a to some places that I've definitely visited in the past. And to have that alternative, it's really nice.

Bevan, Bawn  36:41  
And it's also it's I mean, it's a small shop. And it's a small range of fabrics, because you have to start somewhere. But it's I've never intended to be this massive, I will never be a massive warehouse of fabric. Because I think it's too overwhelming for people, I think they want to go in with a view of, you know, a small collection of fabrics, and feel like they can make a decision. Because so many people are overwhelmed by you know, his a dark colour or that colour or that texture in that colour. And you kind of you don't want to stress people, you know, like, unlike goes back to the investment. I want them to leave feeling like they pick the best thing that they can find for themselves in that shop that day. And they've not missed any

Independent Thinking  37:28  
Yeah. And because it's daunting enough thinking about making your own clothes. Yeah. I love that. So what I'm really interested, though, is about this kind of running an ethical business and having that at its core and being in Glasgow at this time. And I think your response to it through what such an amazing name, cop 20 stitch the project that you're running. Tell us a bit more about that then how you became to be involved as I guess you're sort of celebrating how things can be sustainably made and how and actually and raising awareness of how we use fabrics.

Bevan, Bawn  38:04  
Absolutely. So a couple of months ago, I'd obviously we all knew cup was coming to Glasgow, and it's it's coming to Glasgow, but it's also happening to Glasgow, like we are going to, you know, all the roads are going to be locked down, it's going to be a huge security thing. But nobody was really talking about it. But on the other side of that, you know, there's an amazing, you know, fashion designers who were working with sustainable fabrics on her, you know, making to order and things like that. So I was kind of asking around to see like, is anybody doing anything for coffee? Is this kind of, are we Is this enough, like, we've never had this before, we've never had the opportunity to kind of be put on the mainstage before. So I kind of was kind of putting the word out for a while just to see what people were doing. And then I in return got a lot of invitations to be like, Oh, you could showcase your business here. And you can do you want to exhibit us exhibit with us here and can you contribute like a video here and I was just being for quite a while I was just being asked a lot of and it would mean closing my shop to do something for somebody else. And and while I was, you know, honoured with the invitations and things like that, well, I still I'm only one person and I you know, I'm I'm trying my absolute best to do what I can, but it comes out of, you know, everything else and I was I wasn't always prepared to be like, Yeah, I'm going to drop absolutely everything I've worked for to go and help you project but I'm absolutely like that's amazing what you're doing. But then I realised you know, my relationship with you know, textiles and fabrics are with my customers and and I felt like you know, I just feel like Joe Bloggs just like most people just feel like Joe Bloggs. So I thought well There's a lot of people who would like to be more involved with COC 26, who don't necessarily have the Ways and Means and don't really know what's happening. So I just thought, well, let's just do a community project. And let's just focus on just a, you know not to be because it's quite overwhelming to kind of get in to all these extra exhibitions. Yeah. And so I thought, well, for my own sanity, let's keep it small. And when I say small, I think there's no nearly 60 people. Wow, amazing. But it's been a really nice process. So it's so yeah, so I call the cop 20 stitch, which I thought at the time, nobody would get. I was like, Oh, I'm temporary. But actually, people get it. I was like I so yeah. So it's every Thursday evening, for two hours. And because of COVID, and obviously, the size of the shop, it's quite small. So I've had it open for six people, for it's eight weeks. And, and the first week, the first six people came on came along, and we designed and talked about what we thought we would produce as the main thing will be a window display. So it's not going to travel anywhere, it's going to be for our community, you know, on our High Street, it's not going to, you know, it's not going to go to the cop 26 Exhibition Centre, where actually, you know, I question how many people are going to want to actually go? And yeah, no, because it's COVID. And because it's a security risk. And yeah, you know, I personally feel very nervous about kazillion people coming to the city, I don't necessarily want to put myself in the heart of it. So I thought, well, the best I can do is put something at the heart of here. So yeah, we have, and then ever since there's been people contributing a piece of the design. So the design essentially is a big washing machine with a window, the window of the washing machine is into the shop. And, and flowing down from that is just everyone's a PK

garments. So some of them are life sized. Some of them are miniatures, some of the and it's all kind of it's from bras and pants to jeans to baby grows on these masks. And so we've so people have all contributed their little patch, and then we're kind of patchwork it all together. So the lot, so we've got all the pieces back now. And for the last two weeks, we just have to stitch it all down. And then for weave, we're going to hang it on the 31st. And it will be for the duration of COC with a little explanation about what we chose to do. So we didn't want to go with a slogan, because we felt like put a slogan or a fact or something like that, that's all people are going to read. It's the you're offering them one thing, and one piece of knowledge. Whereas this is purely visual. And it touches upon everything from you know, our overproduction our waste water, you know, this cycle of clothing Rostow my attempts have got embroidered, embroidered into with the 1.5 degrees onto the like, so the, the washing machine, button at the top. And we're talking about microplastics what we put into our wash what you know, so it touches on a number of topics. And, you know, it excludes a number of topics too, but it's just we just wanted to produce something that will be a thinking point or a talking point. And potentially after cop 26. It's something that, you know, could be brought to schools for little or maybe donated to Glasgow museums as a, you know, I wouldn't call it a souvenir, but a piece of slimming city. So I think there will be a lot of things being acquired into the museum's collections from a really historic point in Glasgow Absolutely, would be this

Independent Thinking  44:14  
event. And there's something I think it's such a brilliant project. And I think to have such a collective response to such a collaborative project is just so central to what the answer is going to be in, in us getting out of this situation. But also I love that it's hanging out like a wall hanging or like that, which again, has such a beautiful history of it in terms of social movements and and allowing people to become aware of really important causes.

Bevan, Bawn  44:44  
Yeah, I think, I think textiles and banners and, you know, protest banners made or fabric is something that is very commonly done, and they are they're so much more powerful and there's so much more time and thought, and energy, I goes into something like that from, and it always takes a community of people, it's very difficult to pull something like this together from one or two people. Like, if you think about the hours in the end that will have gone into it's it's probably hundreds of hours of work. And it's lovely because it and it's all age groups as well, it's men on women. And it's just been lovely to, to kind of just have that little offering. It's, it's something very small in the grand scheme of things. But it actually means so much to me, and the people who've, who contributed to it. So it'd be lovely for them, when it's hanging in the shop window to walk past and say, Look, well, I contributed to that. And that's lovely. And yeah, and who knows where it will go after cop? Yeah. But, you know, if, if they haven't managed to do anything else for coffee, or participate or visit anything? Well, they have put their stamp on things. And we have, you know, we do our best to, you know, keep the discussion flowing for the two hours on a Thursday about the environment. And it's just a really nice way to just offer something. Yeah, totally free. And yeah, it's been a really nice experience.

Independent Thinking  46:21  
Oh, it sounds glorious. And I think so it's all your kind of worlds coming together as well. And like, I think this is really, really gorgeous. Where can people see this? If they're not in Glasgow, I think travelling to Glasgow, I think it's just going to be completely off the cards during the month of November. So where can people see it, we'll be able to share or you share it on your Instagram or on your website, or we'll we'll probably do

Bevan, Bawn  46:40  
both will lovely, get some nice photographs of it. And we'll definitely be sharing the proverbial

Independent Thinking  46:50  
gorgeous people can see when they Yeah, watching from afar, wherever they are in Scotland, I suppose in light of all of the headlines and coverage that this is getting people are understandably thinking about their own habits and thinking about steps that they can take, particularly with regard to clothing and how that's washed. And I saw the interesting product that you had that Guppy bag on your on your Instagram, what's what's that

Bevan, Bawn  47:17  
it's, it's essentially a washing bag, because a lot of our washing machines, they don't come with micro plastic filters. Now I think in in a few years time, it will be law for any manufacturer to include these filters, you can buy external filters, but they are, they're kind of these, I suppose they're maybe the size of a a litre a two litre bottle that you attach to the side or to the back of your machine. But of course, a lot of kitchens, you know, our washing machines are inbuilt into our cupboards. And there really is no room at the back or the side to put these. So a Copiague is a guppyfriend Washing bag manufactured by a German company. And essentially, it's as big as any wash bag, and you put all your synthetic fabrics into it, and you wash all your fabrics in it. And it basically collects any of these micro plastics that otherwise would go into your water system. So once you've once you've used the bag a couple of times, you'll see in the corners, it gathers these tiny little there, they almost become when they're dried like a paper, just like little paper, tears of tears of paper, and you pick them out, and then you dispose of them in your general waste. And it just means that it's not going into our water systems. And it's amazing. You can collect in such a small space of time. And I think a lot of look at that. They're like, Oh, well, my might my T shirt is cotton and my jeans are cotton. You know they are natural fibres, but in the vast majority of all our clothes, they're all sewn with polyester thread. So that's something to keep an eye out for. So even if you're somebody who watch everything, you know, so you're of course like your underwear, anything that has elastane in it. It's all synthetic, you know so so I put everything into my Gobi wash bag, because you just don't know what you're going to collect. And you just feel like you're doing a little bit. It's again, it's a drop in the ocean, but every drop counts.

Independent Thinking  49:31  
Yeah. Oh, I love that. Oh, I think we've got a fit for the episode. I'm just curious as somebody who always wanted to start a shop and have no has a shop. How is there anything that surprised you or that you've like that you've Yeah, that you've loved more than you had even expected that your love or it's a very

Bevan, Bawn  49:50  
good question. And I think I love being my own boss.

Independent Thinking  49:56  
Oh yeah,

Bevan, Bawn  49:57  
I do like worked for large organisations and very corporate museums are very corporate. Yeah. And having to it once you ask permission to do one thing and has to go 10 people up the chain, I just don't have to ask any. I don't have to consult anyone. It's great.

Independent Thinking  50:23  
I think that is the fact that I think it's the thing that people envy most of the people who have their own businesses. It's just that actually it's the, the chain of command is. You could just be like, don't want to do that. Yeah, do great. Okay, great.

Bevan, Bawn  50:36  
Asking. The thing is, I kind of cheat as well, because, you know, I had somebody come in and asked me if they could put up a poster in the shop and, and I just pretended that I wasn't the shopper and I said, Oh, I don't think I'm allowed to do that. And it was great.

Independent Thinking  50:52  
You can turn it on when you want to give it up. Well, absolutely, glorious is b2c and I'm so I'm so excited to see what the product is going to look like. And it will be out in the world. By the time this goes out, it'll be out in the world and we'll all be enjoying it's I can't wait to thank you again. And yeah, best of luck. Oh, it's

Bevan, Bawn  51:20  
my pleasure. Thank you.

Independent Thinking  51:27  
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