East Coast Cured on the power of local: resilience, optimism and community spirit

Just like that, we're at the end of series 3! We'll off on our summer break, but worry not - we'll be back before you know it with more stories from independents across Scotland in the Autumn! 

Before we go though, we are delighted to bring you our chat with East Coast Cured - as we speak to founders Susie and Steven. 

Founded in an attic in 2017, East Coast Cured was borne out of a shared love of food, a passion for local produce and a longing to be able to access the kind of charcuterie in Scotland that they had previously only been able to get hold of when holidaying overseas. 

Spring forward 4 years later, we catch up with Susie and Steven to chat resilience in business, why local produce matters, the power of community and why the past 18 months has given them a renewed sense of optimism about our shared future. Enjoy! 

https://www.eastcoastcured.com/

Transcript

Independent Thinking  0:09  
Hello, and welcome to Independent Thinking the podcast exploring a new era for the high street. We celebrate those who are doing wonderful, creative things in the most difficult of circumstances. We'll be going behind the scenes of businesses and shops you love, that you look forward to visiting and that bring joy your High Street. I'm your host, Alexandra. Welcome along.

Hello, and welcome back to the show. This actually is our final show of series three. We very much hope you've enjoyed the series so far, listening to stories from independents across Scotland and those who are also shaping the future of our high street. We'll be back before you know it, but the summer is calling and we're gonna go for a quick summer break. And then we'll be back in the autumn, full of fresh new stories for you to hear. But before we break up for the summer, we're delighted to bring you our chat with Susie and Steven from East Coast Cured. Founded in 2017, East Coast Cured was born of a shared love of food, a passion for local produce, and a longing to be able to access the kind of charcuterie that only previously been able to enjoy overseas. Spring Forward 4 years, and a small issue of a global pandemic later, we catch up with founders Susie and Steven to chat resilience and business, the power of community and why the past 18 months have given them a renewed sense of optimism about our shared future. Enjoy.

Thank you so much for joining us, Susie. And Steven, thank you for your time this morning. It's been it's been such an interesting time for food retail hasn't it? I mean, I just I've been wanting to get you on for such a long time. Because I just think it's it's been a time where we're all become so much more aware a of where it's coming from. But also with past year food has just brought us joy more than ever, for me, certainly I don't know about you! But it's been the source of joy in bringing us these dark times. So yeah, thank you so much!

Steven, East Coast Cured  2:27  
That's nice to hear. And I think it has been very much a lifeline for so many people just to be able to get treats and and to have some some comforts when, especially at the start of the whole pandemic, when we really didn't have a clue what was going on and what was gonna happen. And it was it was scary, you know. So comfort food is an important thing. And if anybody who's had COVID, like we did recently and finds out that you feel rubbish, but you can't taste anything - you realise how important comfort foods when you're not feeling well. So I've been able to help with any of that with what we do, then that's, you know, that's absolutely fantastic.

Susie, East Coast Cured  3:10  
During the first lockdown as well, there was when our online shop went a bit nuts, we were getting loads of lovely messages at the bottom of orders from people just saying, you know, thank you for existing, you're just bringing us a little bit of happiness and, and all that kind of thing as well, which was yeah, which was really lovely.

Independent Thinking  3:28  
It's glorious. Yeah, I think this is the thing with small businesses as well, I think you have been bringing joy throughout your communities, which we'll come on to. The first I mean, let's talk about your story. I mean, I was just saying before recording listeners, I mean, I don't think there's ever been a pairing that are so well suited for being in business together with both of your backgrounds! It just feels like what a fantastic pairing. Tell us a little bit about how you got into charcuterie particularly, you're clearly foodies, you're clearly passionate about what you do. But why charcuterie? And yeah, tell us a bit more...

Steven, East Coast Cured  4:06  
It is a very long story! So the abridged version doesn't start in 1997. 

Independent Thinking  4:16  
...Tony Blair came in...[laughs] 

Susie, East Coast Cured  4:21  
Yeah, that's how long we've known each other. 

Steven, East Coast Cured  4:24  
In all fairness, I think that the cheap flight revolution, and that happened around about that time, and probably did have a big bearing on this sort of thing because I think a lot of people in the UK suddenly had an awful lot more exposure to the kind of foods traditions and food culture that exists on the continent, but didn't necessarily play a big part in our lives beforehand. But anyway, that Yeah, I'm not going to get into that! 

let's narrow this down a little bit. So basically, I by trade, was a craft brewer. I used to work for Stewart Brewing and I worked there for four years and beer was very much my thing. And, and in that space in time, craft beer went from being a fairly niche product to being massive, you know, a little breweries, small producers, like Stewart's, Harveston, and Williams Brothers completely changed the product landscape. And what we know think of as beer is so different from what it was 20 years ago, you know. And also, I guess I had first hand experience of the logistics of going from something quite small, and a kind of craft handmade product to making more of it by keeping the same kind of ethos in terms of sourcing ingredients and making something that that's of really good quality. So I did that. And then I got quite a grown up job in a distillery in a big distillery in Edinburgh, where it was more about engineering, it was more about the kind of technical side of things and making millions of litres of alcohol and not so much of the sitting down and enjoying a lovely bottle of what you've spent the week making. It was fantastic in terms of understanding how how to problem solve, and how to manage...

Independent Thinking  6:19  
But quite removed from the product, then?

Steven, East Coast Cured  6:21  
Yeah, really. And I missed it, you know, I did miss the product side of things. And the other thing was that with a grown up job, I had four days on four days off, and also had a little bit more money to spend than we'd ever had before. So I wanted to do something with my four days off, rather than just sitting around drinking beer, I suppose! So I fancied a project. And we were kind of talking about various different things. And we were on holiday and down in North Yorkshire at one point. And we were kind of talking about how nice it would be, you know, imagine if you had like a little farm. And on the farm, you had a brewery and then all the spent grains from the brewing process you were feeding to animals, and then you know from your pigs, and then you were making charcuterie with the pigs, and making cheese from a dairy herd and all of this kind of sustainable food structure. And we sort of thought, Well, I know how to make beer...but I don't know how to make cheese and I don't know how to make charcuterie. So maybe I'll start having a look at that and see what we think. So I just got some books about making charcuterie and and I quickly realised that what a lot of people don't know is that making salami and things like that is a process of fermentation. As fermented that, you know, that's it's not cooked. It's not raw, either  - it's fermented, which I know, sounds bizarre when you're talking about meat rather than beer or something like that. But because of that, I felt when I was reading it, that actually that the skills that you need to make this product are completely transferable from, from what I learned as a brewer. 

Independent Thinking  8:11  
Understanding the science behind it sounds like? Because there's real science brewing and a science to understanding the compounds, I guess, of what you're working with.

Steven, East Coast Cured  8:19  
Yeah, there was and when I worked at the distillery, I did some qualifications and more kind of scientific aspects of fermentation and things like that. So it wasn't that far removed. And I kind of thought, Well, you know, I think we could have a go at this. And, and initially, the thinking was just a hobby, but you didn't know where it may end up. So that the first thing was we needed somewhere to do it. And we have a very small house with the attics already been converted. So what the only place I could find that would be suitable was the eaves of the attic upstairs. So I mean, literally, you have to you have to crawl through them, you know, that was a tiny little space, but having read the books, I kind of thought you know, it's the right sort of temperature.

Independent Thinking  9:00  
For hanging stuff, you've got lots of bits to hang things from...

Steven, East Coast Cured  9:04  
But you know, it's gonna need a little bit of work to make it happen. So I spent a couple of months and renovating the eaves of the attic on one side of the host so that everything was food safe, hygienic surfaces, but also so that I could control the temperature, the humidity and the airflow. And that's the most important thing when it comes to drying anything really

Independent Thinking  9:24  
Ok, so at this point then Susie, were you so at this point, was this a bit of a pet project, a passion project thinking, Oh, this is something I'd like to try and like you see a project I'd like to do my four days. And at this stage, were you involved at all, Susie?

Susie, East Coast Cured  9:39  
No, actually, No, I wasn't involved. It was definitely a Steven project similarly to -  because you taught yourself how to brew at home as well before going to work for Stewart so it was very much your own project, but I was fully behind because I absolutely love eating charcuturie, and that's ultimately why we got into because of our various Lovely holidays to Tuscany,  to the south of France, and you know, everywhere else in Europe that that makes cured meat. So yeah, I was I was a very willing taster.

Independent Thinking  10:14  
An important job!

Susie, East Coast Cured  10:15  
Exactly. And also very up for the idea of having some sort of family business as well, whatever that may be. 

Steven, East Coast Cured  10:22  
I mean, I told Susie, I think we should we should have a go at this. And she was absolutely behind it. 

Susie, East Coast Cured  10:28  
Much to your dismay! 

Steven, East Coast Cured  10:34  
 So yeah, once I got the the curing area, sort of right upstairs, and it was a case of speaking to local farmers and trying to find out, you know, where do I get the good raw materials from? Where can I find stuff that is ethically reared, and who are the people in the local market and and I started speaking to the butchers at Puddledub, and I would go through in the car with a cool box and get you know, started off buying a whole shoulder. And then using the books that I had, I would work out how to take parts out to cure as a ham and then divide the rest up and and use it to make saucisson and stuff like that. So we bought a very small mincer, we spent a couple of 100 quid on some pretty basic equipment to have a go at it,

Susie, East Coast Cured  11:18  
I found all the old photos from our first day of home production recently, which was really nice to see.

Steven, East Coast Cured  11:25  
Some terrible, terrible looking salamis! 

But you know, we had a go and there was a lot of trial and error involved. And eventually, the kind of problems that you encounter when you're drying meat - getting the wrong kinds of mould and things like that eventually managed to get all of these things right. And obviously to begin with hanging raw meat in your attic and leaving it for a month. And you the first time I tried any of that stuff, it was just so non intuitive to be eating something like that after leaving it there. So the rule was, I was the only one that was allowed to try it. And then we had to wait for 24 hours to make sure that, you know that I was alive before anybody else would try it. And then but you know, I knew that I'd done everything right. I knew that I'd followed all the rules. I understood what it was that made it safe. I knew what ingredients were necessary... 

Susie, East Coast Cured  12:28  
We should clarify that our testing process is slightly more scientific!

Steven, East Coast Cured  12:37  
The whole process is a lot more scientific!  So I mean eventually, after a few months of trying different recipes, every couple of weeks, we felt that we were coming up with stuff that was pretty good. And tasted like the stuff that I used to get in the south of France. 

Susie, East Coast Cured  13:03  
Steven used to live in Toulouse for a while

Steven, East Coast Cured  13:05  
 Yeah, I kind of missed that bit out! You know, like can I never find the stuff that I used to when I lived in Toulouse, even the stuff in the deli is alright, but it's not as good as what we used to get there. So yeah, that was definitely in the background. It was it was a selfish thing was like I want to eat that saucisson, I can't find it anywhere! Let's try and make it. And so yeah, we felt that the stuff was was pretty good, it was off a certain standard. And the main thing obviously, is that if you want to make good charcuterie, you start off with good meat. And that is something that you can find in abundance in Scotland. So there really isn't any reason why we shouldn't be able to produce good charcuterie. And when we got to a point where we felt that we were able to do that, and we kind of thought, well, let's have a go doing this commercially. And let's take on the premises and and see if we can do it. And at the very worst, if nobody wants to buy it, then I've got a nice man cave, you know, somewhere I can just go and make Salamis, every now and again and our friends and family can enjoy it

Susie, East Coast Cured  14:09  
It did have a drum kit in the basement for a very short period of time! 

Steven, East Coast Cured  14:13  
Yeah, I was able to put my drums in the basement for about a month before we run out of space. So that is that sort of basically when it all started.

Independent Thinking  14:27  
So Susie, so at this stage then so when was it when you decided to go fully commercial and think actually we need more premises and we need to write how do we scale up?

Susie, East Coast Cured  14:37  
Is it that when you came on board, that's where my obsessive organisational skills came on board! My background has nothing to do with food or production or anything, anything useful like that. I studied textile and fashion design in Galashiels, I come from a very creative background. And I said I've got a very, very mixed CV, I have a very mixed CV. And I've mostly worked in retail, independent retail, and in galleries and things as well. So for sort of seven or so years before we started the business, I was running a commercial gallery in the new town that was owned by an autism charity. So we supported artists who had disabilities or mental health conditions. And we run traineeships for young people on the autistic spectrum as well. So I guess, the sort Yeah, the business administration side, and the marketing and the design and things kind of fell to me.

Steven, East Coast Cured  15:40  
Yeah, I mean, we realised early on that branding, plays such an important part and getting people to come and try the product. You know, if you're happy that the product is good, then that that's great. But it doesn't necessarily mean that people are going to come and try it just because you see, it's good. And branding, and making everything look nice and appealing, isn't isn't, I wouldn't have a clue where, you know, it's not, I don't have any skills in that respect. 

Independent Thinking  16:07  
It's about telling your story, isn't it? It's telling your story with with how, you know, visually is so important. 

Susie, East Coast Cured  16:13  
Yeah, massively, massively.  

Steven, East Coast Cured  16:15  
We knew that that Susie had that skillset, it was really very much a sort of case of, you know, we were making stuff in the attic. That was good. And it was kind of like, right, I have, I think we have just enough money saved the way to do this on a shoestring, you know, with, with me doing as much of the stuff as I can, myself; I think I've got the skills to do the making it part and make good stuff. And Susie has the skills to make everything to present everything in such a way that people will want to buy it. And also, you know, the business organisational skills, I don't have any background and, and I think once we had that conversation, to see what, you know, all of this stuff is there. And also, I think there is, you know, we think there's a demand for this, people who like this kind of food also like to eat local. And there's no reason why we shouldn't be producing it in Scotland. So I think once we really kind of sat down then and realise that everything was in place, it was a case of saying, either we don't do this, and then we'd regret it. Or we do it, and maybe it doesn't work. But either way, we don't regret trying it. And I think once we're fully on board with each other that it was just right, go, it was go. You know, once we started to spend money on on renovating a premises, that was that we were all in, you know, there was only one way to go sort of thing. And then it just went from there. And really, I kind of felt that once I had the premises and everything sorted and started making products, and then people started buying it. Then Susie kind of came in and went, right, this is actually a business. This is what needs to happen. You know, invoices is like this, paper trail stuff that I hadn't even thought of, you know, Susie picked all of that up and turned it into an actual business.

Susie, East Coast Cured  18:01  
I was on maternity leave for I think the year before we started the business as well. And so yeah, I love a project too. So that was quite helpful in terms of organising time and thinking time. And at the end of my maternity leave, I was made redundant by the charity that I worked for, they were closing all of their social enterprises. So I was made redundant and we were able to use my redundancy money to pay for the initial branding. It's something that I mean I could have I could probably have done that I'm not I'm not a graphic designer and and you know, the kind of design I did is completely different to graphic design. But you know, I know my way around Adobe Creative Suite a little bit, so I could have done myself but I thought because that aspect of it was so important for us that I would get somebody else on board to help us with the initial logo and style guidelines and all that kind of stuff. 

Steven, East Coast Cured  18:59  
Because when we decided as well, when it's your own baby, you can't necessarily see that clearly when it comes to the branding and things like that, if you've done all the branding yourself, you might have a kind of different view of it, it's difficult to kind of detach yourself from that. So we felt it important to you know, if we were going to really spend money would be to bring in a professional to come and help us come up with a brand that really kind of that suits what we're doing. So you know a lot of the other stuff, the renovation and an equipment and things like that we really have to do on a shoestring I had to try and I had to learn a lot you know, I had to learn how to repaint brickwork and stuff that I'd never done before horribly at first and you can still see them when you go into the shop. No. But that was an area in terms of the branding and everything that we decided we were going to spend real money and we used Eskimo Design and they were fantastic.

Susie, East Coast Cured  20:01  
Yeah, Sam was great to work with actually, I think I feel like I was a bit of a nightmare! It's I don't know, because I come from a creative background as well, I thought it might be more difficult to work with clients like me, because I'm, you know, I've probably got too many opinions on how I want things to look. But it was, it was a really, really, really good process to go through. And we still get comments about, you know, how good our  branding is and that kind of thing. 

Independent Thinking  20:26  
Yeah, I think with your logo, it feels like you've got that the good part is the word rustics coming to me, but in a really positive way! You know, it's like, it feels like a Yeah, it can really feel like, I'm just thinking about telling that story like we were saying, telling the story with with your imagery as well, it just, it feels...well actually, just because one of the words I just written down actually is provenance. And that's something that's really been coming through too, when you're speaking and before we can look into the shop a bit, I just wanted to think about some of the the ethos behind what you're doing and behind the animal husbandry, I think it is, behind it and like, and actually looking after the animals and all of this and thinking about where the meat's coming from, how the animals have been treated, all of that is clearly really important to both of you, when you established the company.

Susie, East Coast Cured  21:17  
Yeah, that was very important from from day one. And representing other Scottish producers, as much as possible throughout the business, starting with the pigs was was incredibly important to both of us.

Steven, East Coast Cured  21:32  
I mean, a big part of why people want to buy local is is provenance is, is I think, you know, having come through the horsemeat scandal and everything in there, that sort of thing that there was a lot more publicity about do you know, do we really know where  our food is coming from? Do we really know, you know, what, what is it going through before before we eat it, and I think that really raised awareness of some of the some of the issues and in supply chain, and that's a big part of it. It's not just local as in, you know, I live near you, and I'm selling you this stuff, it's that I know the farmer who produces it, I have a relationship with him and his family and, and the team of butchers that work there. And I go to the farm, it used to be on a weekly basis when I did deliveries and and I see how they rear the pigs and I see how they grow the food that they feed the pigs on the farm. And I know that makes sense from a sustainability point of view. And, and I think, first of all, when people tentatively sort of came in the shop on Restalrig Road, like what the hell is this? And they would ask us these sort of questions. And, you know, we'll be able to talk in great detail about how the pigs were reared, and where they come from, and what happens to them. And Oh, and by the way, you know, we're making it downstairs in the very shop that you're buying it from, 

Susie, East Coast Cured  22:56  
and then we drive them downstairs for a look!

Steven, East Coast Cured  22:58  
Who makes it? Well, actually, I make it, you know, the guy who's selling you this stuff is the same guy that makes it. And so all of that is also a huge part of the brand as well. And that we're having having a shop front has been really helpful for us because when chefs first started to come down, they heard about us and they would come into the shop, there is a feel of an old world deli where, you know, everything is actually being made on site and and and that's what it is. That's what people are buying into. As well as hopefully, you know, they like the product as well.

Independent Thinking  23:33  
Yeah, yeah. I want to ask you Susie about that about the shop and about the feel of it. I mean, your working art and design, was that really important to you that it was sort of you really felt like you were coming into Europe, or harking back to some of that feel of that, of what delis would feel like in other countries or of the past.

Susie, East Coast Cured  23:54  
It was but it kind of happened in a very organic way  - the shop was kind of an added bonus to what we do, which is you know, the production of charcuterie today is the sort of main focus of our business. And then we have this handy, space at street level that we could use as a shop and initially we couldn't afford to have it painted or anything. This is why we had Steven repainting and brickwork and things like that.

Steven, East Coast Cured  24:20  
Basically we ran out -  when we finished the renovation of the production area in the basement so where we were actually going to make and dry cure all that stuff. We had no money left to finish the shop. There was no there was nothing left in the bank.

Susie, East Coast Cured  24:32  
So initially, so we started production January 2017. I think we launched to market in the March of that year. And then from the summer we started doing weekly pop ups at the shop, so we would save bits of money and we'd get it painted or we'd you know, get some shelves put in or that kind of thing. And initially it was very much just a monthly pop up set up similarly to market stall where people would just queue up, sample our  products and buy our meat. And then that kind of went from the monthly pop up to being open on a Friday afternoon and evening. And then it was a Friday afternoon and evening and a Saturday morning. And that's just kind of grown and grown. And similarly our products have as well. So initially, it was just our meat. And I met Ruth from Edinburgh Fermentarium, at our first ever food hygiene training on Valentine's Day of 2017, I think or maybe it was maybe it was the year before anyway, so I knew Ruth and we'd started our businesses up the same kind of time. So she was the first sort of additional product that we brought in and it was always had to be products that would complement our meat, basically. And then we overlapped with some producers at farmer's markets. So we started selling Strathern cheese. And so I think the first Christmas, we basically just had our meats, ferments from Ruth, and Strathearn Cheese. And then we brought on Serena, who is currently our Curing Room Manager, she started with us. I think doing like seven, seven hours a week or so just to support in the shop. She's now full time. But her background was in running the Southside Food Assembly as well as working in hospitality, as well for for many, many, many years and was she's super passionate about supporting other local producers. She knows a lot about Scottish producers as well. And she was really key in bringing all sorts of other producers into the shop as well. And then, you know, we added to that when lockdown happened last year and things as well. Yeah.

Independent Thinking  26:42  
So it sort of naturally sort of naturally evolved as I like, I like the idea as well of things being added when you've got the budget, and I think there's something we talked at first episode of this series with Flora Shedden, and she was just saying, you know, it's just out of necessity, we just, you know what things just had to happen that way. So. And I think, I think a lot of people think when we think of it business is all planned anyways, you know, actually it has to evolve. And it has to think well actually, what do we need? And what what's your appetite for? And then the community or what people? What do we want to do? And yeah, I just love how it can be agile in that way it can evolve.

Susie, East Coast Cured  27:21  
I'm a natural planner as well, when we first started talking about starting a business together, I was very much like we need to sit down and write a business plan. You know, this has to happen. We can't do anything without a plan. And Steven's the polar opposite. And I mean, you know, it's good to have plans and as we grow planning and strategy will be much more important than in our first few years. However yeah, the ability to, to adapt quickly to what's going on around you is really, really, really important, particularly during a global pandemic. 

Steven, East Coast Cured  27:54  
What Susie's saying is that I like to wing it!

Independent Thinking  27:59  
It's that yin and yang know, isn't it? And it comes across time and again, in partnerships. There's needs to be that sort of balance of positions. So that actually a Yeah, cuz I think there's room for both. I think there has to be both. 

Steven, East Coast Cured  28:12  
Sometimes it's good to wing it, other times, it really isn't! Sometimes if you make plans too far in advance, you end up following them even if even if the conditions change, you know, prefer can look at things as they happen. But yeah, no, it's definitely kind of learning. Having been in business with Susie know, for several years  - that planning is important.

Independent Thinking  28:44  
So I mean, it's the elephant in the room. We I mean, you've touched on it there. I mean, so you've got this, you got the shop, and I'm just thinking talking about thinking on your feet, having to be agile. Yeah, you know, the past year has been a very tumultuous time, particularly for shop owners. And for those working in food, there's been a huge challenge. So I was really curious about about how the the role of the shop and your community evolved during that time and how you maybe your position or your thought about where you are in the community changed or that altered -  can you tell us a little bit about how that's been since last March?

Susie, East Coast Cured  29:22  
Yeah, it's been a it's been a completely nuts year, hasn't it? Beginning of 2020 we were, you know, we have the shop. We were selling to wholesale. We were producing away happily.

Steven, East Coast Cured  29:33  
We just set up an online shop from the Christmas before. 

Susie, East Coast Cured  29:37  
Yes, right - I set up an online which was yeah, timely it turns out. We were you know, we had lots of regular visitors to the shop from the local community. Also people travelled to come and purchase our meats and learn more about what we did and things but we were...everything was, you know, we were just planning to produce more, bring on more stuff and Yeah, work with work with more customers. And then February last year, Steven woke up one morning, having been listening to Radio 4 the night before, went in the production kitchen, it was like, we need to talk about COVID. And I was like, No, we don't.  Like, I think this isn't really a thing is it's like, it's fine.

Steven, East Coast Cured  30:19  
It was a feeling at that point in the media, were making a big deal of it, and it would blow over. But I think that the thing for me was that once I realised that the restaurants just had closed in Italy. So that was two weeks before it happened here. I kind of thought, well, I can't I can't see any possible argument or logical reason why we aren't going to be in the same situation a couple of weeks from now, there's nothing going to stop it spreading, you know? And even if we shut all the borders, no, it's already here. It's only a matter of time before we're in exactly the same situation.

Susie, East Coast Cured  30:50  
So we humoured him and called an emergency meeting...

Steven, East Coast Cured  30:53  
We had an emergency meeting where everybody thought I was being crazy.

Susie, East Coast Cured  30:56  
We did. And then I think three weeks later, we were in lockdown. So I mean, initially, we were obviously deeply concerned and anxious, like the rest of the world was.

Steven, East Coast Cured  31:07  
Restaurants and hotels were 70% of our business at that point. 

Susie, East Coast Cured  31:17  
So we had, yeah, we had a team meeting to sort of discuss what we do, we decided that we would stop production fully for two weeks just to see the lay of the land. I think it was within that time, the UK announced a national lockdown. And, yeah, and, and we were really freaking out. And there was a lot of panic. 

Steven, East Coast Cured  31:38  
The other thing is nobody had, there was no clarity at that point about what was essential and what wasn't. So we were more, you know, somebody may argue that because we don't supply supermarkets, and or that what we do isn't essential. And so I think the thing is, we sat down with the team and said, Look, you know, we could all just, we could just shut the door, we could all just go home and hide. And, and in many respects, that might be the safest thing for everybody in terms of not getting COVID. And for our health, this is at the very, very start where we really didn't know very much. Or alternatively, we can do everything we can to keep the business running during this time, so that we all have jobs at the end so that we can, we can do everything we can to ensure to the best of our abilities that we still have jobs at the end of all of this and everybody kind of went well - let's do that. So the first thing then was going, well we already sell bread in the shop, and various other essentials, let's get milk in, let's get eggs and you know, from local suppliers, the kind of stuff that you can't get in the supermarket. Let's do that, first of all, and see how that goes. And, and that was the kind of the first step to sort of changing what we were doing really going from being kind of luxury items with a few essentials to to being somewhere you could get you know, a host of essential items. 

Susie, East Coast Cured  33:03  
And we became really, really, really busy at the shop. I think a lot of the local community in Restalrig, but also the wider Leith community. And a lot of people didn't want to go to the supermarket. You know, they were busier, there's obviously more chance of picking up something nasty in a bigger shopping environment than ours and also be brought in safety measures really, really really really early before lockdown as well remember? So we were only allowing one person in (our shop's tiny, our shop's teeny tiny), so we were allowing I think two people in and then it was one person and then we set up a hand washing station at the front door. And then we closed the door entirely and served from a butcher's block up the front door. And we've been doing that since last March. We didn't think we'd still be doing it! Now someday, we hope to welcome people back into the shop. And time doesn't feel feel right. But we were just really embraced by the local community. And yeah, we got, I think it properly sunk in at Christmas time, when we got loads of really lovely cards from customers just saying what an important role we played. Particularly during first lockdown it was sometimes the only time they would go out each week would be to come and stand in our wee queue. You have some banter with Nadia or Serena or myself and yeah, just to give them a bit of social contact and and cheer.

Steven, East Coast Cured  34:29  
I remember very vividly kind of because we live right next to the shop, it's about a 30 second commute, something like that. And I remember coming out here one morning, going round the corner and thinking right, okay, how are we going to how are we going, to manage to keep paying staff you know, how are we going to keep things running? Can we find new customers and then kind of turning around the corner to the shop and just seeing a line of people all the way up Restalrig Road and then every day this line just simply get bigger and bigger. And before we knew it, our output was actually higher than it had been before the restaurants closed, in the space of a month. And the other thing we did, probably the most important thing that we did to begin with was we offered free delivery within Edinburgh. And the restaurant across the road from us Bijou had had to close. So the owner, James, he was sitting twiddling his thumbs. So he started doing deliveries for us. And, and then, of course, we needed more support in the shop, because the shop was far busier than it had been before. And another neighbour of ours, Nadia, whose business, whose income at that point was from Airbnb. And she came on board and, and started working with us. And she knew, she knows everybody in the local community, she used to work in the restaurant across the road. And she's just, she's been living here for about 20 years. So and, and, you know, our customer services is just fantastic. So we were delighted because we wanted Nadia to work for us anyway, so in a cruel twist of fate...

Independent Thinking  36:07  
All it took was global pandemic! 

Steven, East Coast Cured  36:13  
So yeah, things things change very quickly. And then we, it kind of dawned on us that, that we had a whole new set of problems, which is how do we make more stuff? How do we take on people, you know, how do we keep the local community stocked up with supplies? And how do we hire staff in the midst of this pandemic? But you know, those were the right problems to have. And we were very, very grateful that that that was what we were having to worry about.

Susie, East Coast Cured  36:42  
Yeah, and how would we ensure that we would still have stock for the trade customers that had had to close their doors as well, and they were instrumental in us, in us selling our, our product to consumers as well, people would try it in bars and restaurants, and then they would come down to the Leith shop. So we wanted to be able to continue to supply these bars and restaurants when they were able to reopen. But yeah, it was a juggle with the stock management.

Steven, East Coast Cured  37:12  
Yeah, it was, it was a tough time. And, and just as all of this was starting to kick off, because obviously retailing, that amount of product, as opposed to wholesaling it to restaurants requires an awful lot more manpower as well. Just as we were sort of, just as Susie, I think we're starting to find our feet with the new rhythm of retailing that much stuff, our Curing Room manager, unfortunately, twisted her ankle - well, it was bad, she couldn't walk for like six weeks.

Independent Thinking  37:43  
Oh, my God. Okay.

Steven, East Coast Cured  37:45  
You know, it was the absolute worst timing, because she's such a key member of the team and the, the whole operation. And she was absolutely devastated. And so the pressure was, especially on Susie -  because it's more her side of the business, the pressure was very much on and it was, you know, it was it was a tough time. And for all the right reasons, because we were busy. And so many other people were not, you know, couldn't say that. And we were absolutely, you know, grateful that we've had such a fantastic response from the community,

Susie, East Coast Cured  38:18  
And how hard the team works as well over the last 12 months too, last year, the amount of production that Steven and Joe. Yeah, they got through was ridiculous!

Steven, East Coast Cured  38:32  
Me and Joe had to start working. So it was just me and Joe working in production of that time. But we decided that the safest option for us working together in a little kitchen was to separate our shifts. So Joe would work during the day. And at that point, I was at home looking after the kids anyway, so I wouldn't have been able to go into work. And then I would go in at night and work until kind of one o'clock in the morning. And then in crossover as well. In order to make that work.  Joe had to work overtime every single week, which he did for about six months. And so you know, it wasn't it wasn't just me. But that meant he had to work on his own all day, every day in a basement, you know, which which wasn't a lot of fun when you're listening to the news. And it's all doom and gloom. And you know, it was it was a tough time for everybody. It really was. I think it's only kind of looking back now that it comes back to you actually. Well, a bit of a blur to be honest.

Independent Thinking  39:25  
I think we almost need some time I think when... whenever I don't know what, we can't really say 'when we're getting back to normal' because we'll never be we'll never have what we did before. But I know things will be different. But I always feel like we need to take a moment collectively as a globe to be like, what have we just been through? 

Susie, East Coast Cured  39:45  
It's definitely it takes all that processing time. I remember, I think maybe we had gone for a wander in town, just as COVID became a thing at the beginning of last year and I remember walking around and being like "Steven, this is mental -  Look at all of these people, all of these people are worrying about the same thing" And that wouldn't have happened since the Second World War probably. 

Steven, East Coast Cured  40:07  
And then realising that that's global. Yeah, well, I think we'll be taking time to reflect on this for the rest of our lives when when people you know, young people are asking us about it and stuff. Yeah, as we get older we will change the story various times, and it will become something else. 

Independent Thinking  40:29  
How does it impact you in terms of like, your production line? Was it difficult? Was it impacting things like to get the pork, or to get meats?

Steven, East Coast Cured  40:39  
Well, the thing is Puddledub, our main supplier of pork, and over in Fife, they also have an online shop, and they had found that the same, you know, uptake, and direct to customer sales had blown up for them as well. So they were crazy busy and absolutely delighted about it, but it also had had a massive impact on on their stock. So before, whereas they would have had plenty of pigs to send our way, there were less available because they were selling so much in the way of bacon and sausages and delivering it to people's homes as well. So the the result of that is that the pigs have to go away earlier. So they're, they're smaller, and they're younger, and they're leaner. And so that gave us quite a few problems. So that without boring me too much for the details, but the excess fat that we have from pigs is what we need to make some of our products like N'duja and smoked chorizo and salamis like that they have a higher fat content. And because we didn't have any of this excess fat because the pigs were coming in leaner, we weren't able to make it, so N'duja became like a, you know, like a scarce resource. We had to sell, you know, under the counter! It became an illicit trade! That was definitely one of one of the things that affected us. Obviously there was Brexit going on, and everything at that time, were very, very few of our ingredients come from mainland Europe, apart from paprika, and but we've been lucky in the sense that all of our suppliers were on it, as far as that's concerned, and it's been absolutely hell for them and still is, you know, trying to deal with with getting their products in from Europe, but they're, they're such professionals that thankfully, you know, we never felt the pain of any of that. 

Independent Thinking  42:34  
Gosh, and I mean, I'm just thinking about supply chains, when generally I think it's, it's, yeah, like I just said to you before we started recording, you know, it, we're becoming a lot more aware, all of us, in just in our place in the world in terms of like, how everything's just sort of hanging on a thread as like, as they were talking about this just in time way of of managing supply chains, but I think, uh, yeah, how is, how is it in terms of other things of running it? Like you've mentioned cardboard, Susie -  like things like that. It's something that you just don't think about, you know?

Susie, East Coast Cured  43:07  
No, you don't. And I think it's good that the last year has, you know, given more people the opportunity to think about how everything pieces together in terms of supply chain and things as well as important. It doesn't, it doesn't just happen. But yeah, cardboard was something that I think due to a combination of things. So Brexit, but also because of COVID, and more people doing takeaways and things like that, there was a global shortage of cardboard, and a lot of suppliers were struggling to get their raw materials and to then make your hamper boxes, or your carrier bags and things like that as well. And, and, yeah, it does make things tricky, but I don't think we ever had a point where we didn't have anything, because I always buy in advance.

Independent Thinking  43:52  
It's that organisation!

Steven, East Coast Cured  43:53  
What's striking me about the sort of supply chains and the whole COVID situation in general is that me personally, and I think a lot of people feel this way. I have learned that people are so much more resilient as a group than I thought they were pre COVID. When COVID started to kick off, I kind of thought that we were going to be living in underground shelters, you know, with crossbows and that sort of thing -  an exaggeration, but you know, to look at where we are, and so far forward with, with everything still going on, and looking at how people have had to think on their feet and how they've adapted but most importantly, how people have come together and make that resilience happen. It's given me so much more confidence that you know, that actually that we we can overcome. Even the biggest problems, you know, I mean, COVID is a big problem, but climate changes is far bigger, you know, and it seems like an insurmountable challenge. But I have a lot more confidence now after COVID that people can actually come together. And you never know history books might actually say that, that if it hadn't been for COVID, we wouldn't have been able to, to come together in such a way to fight the bigger challenges. 

Independent Thinking  45:11  
That's an optimistic place to, to close our conversation as to like, you know, what, in this year of COP 26 and we're all  looking at these, you know, weather events that are happening around us, you know, it's it. Yeah I think that's a very optimistic view of that collective action that we actually, this is possible if we pull together and drawing upon all these lessons that you've learned and that community spirit. Before we close up, I just wondered if there's Yeah, what will you be... Obviously, you'll be taking this kind of community ethos, (I mean, you've always had) it been really into the future of the business. But what else can we look forward to from East Coast Cured? What are your next on your plans?

Susie, East Coast Cured  45:54  
We need a bigger boat! That's next on the plans. We were delighted to recently win a Scottish Edge award. And that is to support us in moving our production. Our shop will remain -  we own the premises there, that will that will remain -  but we need a bigger production premises, don't we Steven?

Steven, East Coast Cured  46:16  
Yeah, absolutely. And when it comes to any kind of food production, it's it's tricky, because you need a lot of capital to fit out any kind of premises, to make it safe to produce food there. And so we're looking at various different options, various different sites. There's a lot of problems to solve. But that's what we've been doing for the last five years. So that's what we'll continue to do. We're very lucky to say that we actually have a waiting list of customers at the moment. And although we never go into business with the thought of being having to ever say no to people, when they approach us, unfortunately, that's where we are at the moment, we have a waiting list of customers. So we just need to get to the right sort of place where we can make exactly the same products that we're making now, but just make more of it. So we can come back to those customers and say, Look, yep, we've got you covered. So that's what we're working on now. And in the meantime, whilst we're doing that, we're going to be looking at new recipes. That's something that we haven't had a chance to do so much, because we've been so focused on on just kind of keeping things moving during COVID. But that was one of the reasons why we really got into this in the first place. And that's one of the things that I personally love most about it, is coming up with new ideas for recipes, new flavours and working with other local producers to source like, you know, quality ingredients and that sort of thing. So yeah, and got some ideas in the pipeline. So watch the space.

Susie, East Coast Cured  47:46  
First of all though, we're going to go on a big fat two week family holiday and a little bit of recovery and come back well rested!

Independent Thinking  47:56  
I love that  - some r&r. Because you're in demand, you're looking for new premises. I mean, you're going with this beautiful sense of humility and, and a real respect for what you're doing and yeah, the producers you're working with. And that's just such a wonderful, a wonderful note to end on. Thank you both for your time today. It's been a joy to speak to you.

If you've enjoyed today's episode, please consider rating the show, writing a review or telling a friend -  it makes a huge difference to us. That's all for the series! We'll be back in the autumn with more stories of independents across Scotland. Until then have a wonderful summer, and I'll see you soon. Bye for now.