Summer special: Putting quality at the heart of your business and opening your first retail space with Joe from gelato makers, Joelato

There has been much talk about the new St James Quarter that opened in Edinburgh last month, and a huge amount of discussion and excitement about their food market - Bonnie & Wild. We’ll be discussing the wider development in more depth next series, but we wanted to first catch up with one of the traders in the new market, gelato makers Joelato - because what better way to celebrate summer on the show?!

Founded in Perthshire by Joe Sykes with his partner Lucy, this will be Joelato’s first foray into retail. They had dreams of starting their own food business, and through lockdown turned that vision into a reality, creating a product which people couldn’t help but shout about - including former guest on the show, Flora Shedden. 

We talk about his passion for Scotland’s bountiful produce, why he finds Italy so inspiring, coping when things go wrong and preparing for such an anticipated opening.  Enjoy! 

https://www.joelato.co.uk/

Transcript

Independent Thinking  0:09  
Hello, and welcome to Independent Thinking the podcast exploring a new era for the high street. We celebrate those who are doing wonderful, creative things in the most difficult of circumstances. We'll be going behind the scenes of businesses and shops you love that you look forward to visiting and enjoy your High Street. I'm your host, Alexandra. Welcome along.

Hello, and welcome back to the show. Now there has been much talk about the new St. James quarter that opened last month and a huge amount of discussion and excitement about their food market Bonnie & Wild. We'll be discussing the wider development in more depth next series. But we first wanted to catch up with one of the traders in the new market ahead of opening - gelato makers Joelato because what better way to celebrate summer on the show. Founded in Perthshire by Joe Sykes with his partner Lucy, this will be Joelato's first foray into retail. They had dreams of starting their own food business and through lockdown,  turned that vision into reality creating a product which people couldn't help but shout about, including former guests on the show, Flora Shedden. We talk about his passion for Scotland's bountiful produce, why he finds Italy so inspiring, coping when things go wrong, and preparing for such an anticipated opening. We're very grateful to Joel for taking some time out to speak to us during what was, I imagine, an incredibly hectic time to chat all things food. This one, as I say is to celebrate summer. So please enjoy, gelato in hand!

Joe, thank you so much for your time this evening. I mean an incredibly busy time for you opening on in a mere three, four days time. So thank you, thank you so much for joining us Independent Thinking. Thank you. 

Joe, Joelato  2:00  
Thank you for having me, Alexandra. It's great. 

Independent Thinking  2:02  
Oh, a pleasure. Now I think it's it seems like a perfect time to speak to you because finally the weather's lifting slightly at least this evening when we speak and what better what better to refresh us in this kind of, you know, summer heat than a gelato?! Oh, wonderful! Flavours from far flung destinations where we can't get to at the moment. So this is a wonderful summer guest.  Tell us how you got into this wonderful line of work. And yeah, how did you come to be? What do you call it a gelato...gelatier...how do you pronounce it?! 

Joe, Joelato  2:49  
Gelatiere! Although it seems it's still...I find it a weird thing to to call myself an ice cream maker. It's not something I really ever envisaged after more than two years ago 

Independent Thinking  3:02  
Really? 

Joe, Joelato  3:03  
And then we got into it because well I've always always loved my food ever since I was little and my wife Lucy is a fantastic cook and comes from a family of cooks as well so it's very much a shared passion of food there. And for the longest time I wanted to have my own business and and I guess I dreamed of it being in food although not coming from a culinary or catering background I you know I my first thought was well what else could I offer? What would people want to buy from me other than, I think I do a pretty crappy bolognaise! But otherwise, I think that's already been done! 

Independent Thinking  3:42  
What were you doing beforehand?

Joe, Joelato  3:44  
Oh, I was working in the most incredibly passionate and I was working in marketing for a mining technology firm (!). My passion for that had somewhat dwindled over the years and I was I was desperate to do something a little bit different but I think my I suppose my background in marketing good did put me in good stead I suppose in that when we you know when it when it did come to thinking about I mean we we came to the to the idea of ice cream, partly because my wife had always said Gosh, do you know you're always going on about ice cream? We always talk about this wonderful ice cream you had when you were a child or when you're University in Paris and and how Wouldn't it be wonderful if you could get it over here and and what have you and why don't you think about that Joe? And so yeah, and so so we did our market research into that to see sort of what is the ice cream? What is the ice cream market like in Scotland, and we discovered there really wasn't much if anything at all in terms of that that fantastic top level gelato or ice cream we get in the likes of Italy or France as well. So with all maybe there's maybe there's some space there So, so So yeah, we did our market research and, and decided to take the jump and go and get training everyone in the university carpigiani University and Janata University and belanja, which was just an amazing Yeah, don't get me wrong, I didn't do a bachelor bachelor degree or anything. It was, it was a whirlwind three weeks. But it certainly, I suppose it really gave me the fundamental skills in terms of how to sort of the commercial skills and also the the the really the digital auto making skills, but how to, you know, not just make your own little home recipes, but really do it in commercials as a business, which was just so so fundamental, I realised I didn't have any of the skills I needed before. Once, you know, once I've completed the course it was, it was just so essential, I feel and made a fantastic network of friends, he desired in the intention to, you know, we are going to carve out a little niche, you know, the way we can be competitive is to, is to be the brand that offers that really fantastic, pure, inventive sort of ice cream that you get in Italy. And it's very hard to come by here other than maybe out in London, for example. Yes, there are a few places but outside of London, they're very few and far between.

Independent Thinking  6:19  
And can I ask, because what is the difference between ice cream and gelato? Is there a reason why gelato has not been is not so common over here? It is? is I think I saw on your website that it's it's higher maybe in milk content, less cream, but is that? Is there a reason why we don't do it so much? Is it just a fact that people don't have the training?

Joe, Joelato  6:40  
It's an interesting question. I mean, I think there are, there are a few things that first of all, the key differences are it's a gelato, certainly the milk base should add to his mood, mostly milk with just a little bit of cream. Whereas ice cream is the other way around, it's very cream based and what have you to get a little bit more technical gelato is churned much more slowly than then then ice cream. And that means it has a dense sort of more velvety texture. And unless err, you know, typically in what we call over an industry in a good quality lottery also have maximum 20 25%. Whereas it could be much higher, much higher and ice cream. And that doesn't necessarily mean the ice cream is bad. You know, as long as the ingredients are good. It's good ice cream. But yeah, the texture is different. And it also means when it comes to serving, you sort of serve gelato returned the higher temperature sort of minus 12 to minus 14, whereas ice cream is at around minus 18 or something like that. I I would one of the reasons i'd guess it's not the proper proper artisanal gelato is of course a popular over here is that you do you do need to learn to learn learn skills, you know if you if you want to have a little gelato, gelato career, well, you need to employ someone who has the skills and I guess over here those people are very few and far between. I was in Italy, there are far far more of those people. 

Independent Thinking  8:11  
Of course you're based in Perthshire. But did you always have the idea of you being inspired by this project around you by this wealth of you know, delicious fruit and beautiful like are just I'm just thinking like, produce is fantastic around there. So was the idea that you would always kind of bring this back to Perthshire and bring with with you that working with local producers and having those flavours really come to life in, in a format would actually you get more flavour to them through the title?

Joe, Joelato  8:41  
Yes, totally. Because that was the that was what we wanted to do. I mean, it's funny, there were a few, a few people who just said, well, Joe, why don't you just mass produce it, charge less, sell a lot more get into the supermarkets. And well for one it's really not as easy as that. But also, it's as much as we wanted to carve out a niche and hoping to have a successful business. We wanted to do something that we loved that we were passionate about and we do love we do love cooking my my wife Lisa and I we love cooking we love working with with beautiful ingredients and and and so yes that's that's that that was really that was really it. We wanted it to be a combination of something that could be a business that was a successful business but but also carrying keeping on something we love not just doing something because it would bring in the bucks. Yeah, we won't. We will. As I said we were heavily inspired by those wonderful ice cream parlours and Joe threes in in Italy and France. But I guess also, you know, when I was in, I was lucky enough to spend a little bit of time in Italy and in France and know going to those fantastic chocolate shops and and patisseries and yeah, you know, just wanting to read Create that sort of that sort of amazingness, really.

Independent Thinking  10:04  
Because they are hugely passionate, particularly Bologna, isn't it?

Joe, Joelato  10:07  
 I mean, it's it's Mecca. 

Independent Thinking  10:09  
It's incredible, isn't it? I mean, imagine being so inspired by not only the projects, but the passion that they have for food and for high quality food over there. It's just to be a medicine that must have been wonderful.

Joe, Joelato  10:21  
It's next level. I mean, there are a couple of streets in Bologna. And you walk down and then you know, there's a sort of a cheese shop and you look at them and you go, this makes fortnum and Mason's, like, a little corner shop. It is just unbelievable, sort of, sort of project produce. And the beauty of the shops and the abundance of this incredible, incredible larder of food is it's very inspiring. Yeah, it's a beautiful place to be I highly recommend everyone's got to go there.

Independent Thinking  10:55  
And there's that inspired some of the flavours that you've developed as well because we get using produce that perhaps in flavours that really we might not use had before like the use of mascarpone. 

I love that and like I mean I had the Dulce de Leche, the mascarpone one over Christmas and yeah and I know that you do like Margarita ones are flavours that we might not be used so much over here because, we're very used to things are quite bland in terms of we stick to what we know and it's all these different kind of a yeah bringing different flavours together different combinations that people might not expect which is what is kind of that delighting the customer is so wonderful, isn't it? 

Joe, Joelato  11:30  
Yeah, well, I totally i mean you know my wife and I will we are constantly looking at you know looking through recipe books or you know, whenever we go past the restaurant menu you know, we'll take a look at Oh, that's an interesting sounding putting, I reckon and we can put those two flavours together and that would really work in ice cream and this is what we're not trying to do is is to try and just just put crazy crazy food combinations out there you know flavour combinations which which you know, complete respect to to the companies that do that but you know, we're not trying to scare anyone with with totally wacky flavours but there are so many there are so many beautiful flavour combinations out there you know rhubarb and ginger for example, goes red elderflower, things like that, that are gorgeous. And you'll get them in on the restaurant menu and a lovely tart or something like that. But you'll note you very rarely get them in an ice cream, but why not? You know, so we're all about that, you know, my favourite is coffee and cardamom and that's always gone down well, or, you know, making sort of, with one of my favourite recent flavours is his severe version of Malaga, which is sort of Spain's rehmann reason where, rather than in infusing the reasons you infuse them with Pedro ximenez Sherry, and it's just, it's just delicious. So it's just doing things differently, but

Independent Thinking  12:55  
I have had that that is truly gorgeous. 

Joe, Joelato  12:57  
Thank you. Yeah, no, so yeah, we, it keeps it exciting for us and hopefully, hopefully our customers as well. And I think it's, I think maybe putting it in a sort of looking at it from a business or marketing point of view. It's I strongly think that we've we've got to deliver some sort of, you know, some sort of customer experience, I think that's very important these days. And for us, that's about you know, regularly delivering really interesting beautiful flavours to our customers that maybe they haven't tried before. Or we're just doing it a little bit differently

Independent Thinking  13:33  
because that's how you had developed the business?  it wasn't so it was a sort of mail order almost you were doing deliveries across Scotland and what words are spreading by mouth word of mouth and I mean I first I mean apart from my mum as well actually cuz she's so on it when it comes to a food trends and and Instagram she obviously loves it. But also I saw you Oh Flora Shedden's Instagram. And was it that was it that kind of word of mouth that was beginning to spread across parature and then across Scotland and the wider you can

Joe, Joelato  14:06  
that's absolutely right. Yeah, bang on. When we first started the May during the mail order really because we needed to find a way of continue our business during during lockdown during COVID. I'd been I'd been put on furlough, which instead that gave us the opportunity to do it was it was great in many ways. You know, we realised actually it's legal, it's within the rules to deliver goods. We can do this. This isn't you know, we're not being naughty by delivering ice cream is illegal. So we thought Great, well, okay, we can just put our freezer in the back of the van and deliver ice cream. But within that we just asked some of our followers on Instagram, Hey, is this something that would interest people and it it just grew and it was by word of mouth really. We were lucky enough to have a few people like Flora shedden, who've got gazillions of followers mentioned us And that was huge lady Mansfield it skin palaces has been has really shattered about us, which is fantastic. But yeah, it's that word of mouth is which has just been so invaluable for us it's really allowed our business to grow.

Independent Thinking  15:13  
It's wonderful and I think when you've got an amazing product though, and when the quality speaks for itself people become like, you know, they just started want to share about it because I know I many people I've told about it, you may mention Lena Mansfield, and you've done a recent collaboration with with skin palace with that palace, mace that using their beautiful sharp braids. It to tell us how that collaboration came about?

Joe, Joelato  15:35  
Well, you know, we'll early on. Lady Mansfield was a really and her family have been really really supportive, you know, telling telling their friends about us and yes, we we appeared at one they do they do a sort of November market, I can't remember what it's called. But that was pretty much the first sort of place we started promoting the idea of deliveries. And, and yeah, she she was she was fantastic and continues to be fantastic. And they a little while ago that mentioned the idea of Hey, Joe, would you you know, how would you feel about the idea of we would love to stock your ice cream, but have a flavour that's unique to us. And, you know, obviously, you know, we're not going to say no. So yeah, they must admit they it was their idea they came up with the idea that like Joe wants to do something around Eton mess idea because they're very well known for the for the things like the shortbread and the scones which are just super quality and their jams as well. So they they came up with the idea and then we delivered a few examples I think we did one that was an Earl Grey tea gelato with with some German and scons going through it and one that was just a plain lovely clotted cream and in the end we settled on a clotted cream gelato with their recipe for we made the jam but it was according to their recipe so a lovely raspberry jam and then their their delicious shortbread crumbled through

Independent Thinking  17:06  
Sounds wonderful I know. Oh, yeah, I was thinking because the Scone Palace was I mean those things food wise, they come to mind. But also, I'm thinking could they work in the peacocks that are roaming?! Because I was thinking what other things could what could they bring in what flavours real? Wow. And that's fantastic. Just a really Yeah, really special thing? That's really Yes, special for Scone Palace was again, wonderful, as a vistor, thinking 'I can only get this one place'. So you're delivering, you're delivering ice cream and you're the word of mouth is spreading? And how is it then that you are now opening a retail unit? Because was that always something that was in your sights? Or is that slowly developed? Is that sort of thing? Actually, this is something we want to bring it to the people of Edinburgh? 

Joe, Joelato  17:53  
Well, when we first started out, you know my business plan was we we will produce wonderful gelato. But rather than have taken the risk and investment required for doing something bricks and mortar, why don't we get a couple of mobile units for example, we bought ourselves a really old but fantastic gelato trailer, which looks lovely. And so we'll have a couple of those in areas with high footfall brilliant that'll help us avoid you know, the year long rents and the the bricks and mortar. But that simply did not work. It is incredibly hard to get those pitches nigh on impossible, I would say. So we had to give up another day. But it was really through friends of friends and we had some friends up one of our issues and amazing amazing cook down in London. And it was her and her husband he said oh Joe Do you know such and such he's actually opening this amazing food is working on this food market in Edinburgh. Um, I think you know maybe I think he's looking for pudding looking for the unit selling for you. Maybe you know, we'll mention you if you're okay if that's okay with you. We didn't expect anything to come from it you know? But it did we heard who heard back from them. And since then, it is a place called Bonnie and wild and it's run by a lovely guy called Charlie McAlpine. And yes, he we met up with him in Edinburgh gave him a tasting of the ice cream and of our gelato and he liked it. He is really big into his his gelato and he comes but he comes from a chefin background so you know his he had high standards and luckily enough he liked our gelato. So yeah, it's I mean we it's been obviously due to Coronavirus it's had a few delays but it's it's now all organ open in three days time and we couldn't be more excited. I mean we we've we've been back and forth to the to Bonnie mode a few times now and it's just it's looking absolutely fantastic and We were big fan of the other concessionaires there, the other the other companies that are being represented some really exciting, exciting companies, and we're just so chuffed to be alongside them.

Independent Thinking  20:10  
Yeah, hugely exciting. And so tell us about the prep that's gone into that then in terms of, I mean, not only the amount of ice cream you're going to, or the gelato sorry, that you're going to have to prepare also, like, the home, what are this? Or this? I know, actually, listeners, you know, the other thing we were talking about was a before recording was the amount of custard that we're gonna, you know, do is preparing today. But it ready for you, dear listener to enjoy. But tell us about the prep, that's, that's gone into this and all the steps can have this taken up? Because it must be I mean, without wanting to, you know, add any stress because it you know, there's a lot of expectation with this incredible development, because, you know, with James James quarter is, I mean, it's a huge time coming. And people are ready to be out in the world. And they're excited about trying new flavours trying new, new new people are coming to it and for the first time, so tell us a little bit about how that's what you've had to do as a company to kind of get there? Well,

Joe, Joelato  21:14  
well, one, it's, it, we try not to bite off more than we can chew. So our unit there is not huge, it's quite, it's pretty small and pretty manageable in terms of you know, we are, we're not going to be offering everything and so we're going to have basically in it's just going to be gelato and sorbet, that's what we're going to be. So we're going to be hopefully adding on a few things like lovely ice cream sandwiches and delicious sauces, a few weeks down the line, but we're trying to keep it slightly manageable for ourselves. But really, it's about continuing to making the right quantities that we need, for example, so we've had to invest in new machinery, which is interesting in itself. I mean, I've never had to spend these sort of sums on new pieces of kits and, and to ensure you've got the right amount of electricity going into your kitchen, all that sort of stuff, I've never had to think of any of these sort of things. So it's, it's understanding that sort of stuff. I mean, for example, is when we were a few, a few months last year, you know, our pasteurizer just stopped working. So, I mean, that was an absolute nightmare, we were having to make sort of 60 kilos of custard on the hub every night, not every night, but two or three nights a week, which was just so that's when we realised Crikey, we can't afford to have that happen when we've got the shop open because we are going to be open every day of the year part for maybe three or four days, I think so it's, it's, it's that sort of thing. So that was when we realised Crikey, we've got to invest in new new machinery, which is, you know, which is quite daunting, you know, having to spend a lot of the money that we've managed to earn over the year. And I suppose it just comes down to refining the processes thing, it's, it's working out how you can create that quality that you're after, on an ongoing basis in a really efficient in a really efficient way. So it's, I guess, it's been a lot of learning a few skills, which has been what we've taken quite a lot of quite a few gelato, making courses over the past a few months just just to hopefully up our game and to keep that consistent quality we've invested in a in a new account. I won't bore broke up or our customers with it, but essentially, it's gonna it's I don't think I don't think any other shopping in Scotland has got it, it's called a positi. And in basically it will allow us to store the ice cream in the most perfect condition imaginable in the in the shopping centre. So you know, every single, every single day you come for the ice cream, I'd like to be in the most perfect condition. So it's a bit I suppose more more sort of business set of problems and challenges has been getting a team together. I haven't had to do that before. And he would seem everyone's finding that really challenging. And we you hear from restaurants on the Isle of Skye

Independent Thinking  24:15  
especially in hospitality, yeah. 

Joe, Joelato  24:16  
Yeah, it's really hard to find the people. But we've managed to get four fantastic, fantastic people but pretty lucky because I think we only got eight people apply for the job. And half of those have been really brilliant. That's very, very, we count ourselves very fortunate. We're really looking forward to working with them. But what we really want to do is to try and carry on to definitely carry on our deliveries. After after about a month of opening the shops we need to get used to running the shop. And so we're now trying to recruit someone to help us in the kitchen and, and there again, we've been quite lucky we've had a couple of applicants who are just superb, you know from from really fantastic chocolate making backgrounds pastry chefs I'm quite excited about about working with them.

Independent Thinking  25:05  
Wow. You know, it feels very the way you talk about it is it's very manageable as you speak. And it's sort of like it feels is because you've got your idea for the business really nailed. I think that's it, you're super clear on what it is you're doing. You're really passionate about the produce and, and the product that actually it feels like a very natural progression. I think it feels I mean, I don't know you're told you're but I feel I feel as though nothing could be phased out. Nothing could faze you, you feel pretty unfeasible. Is that fair?! You seem pretty calm!

Joe, Joelato  25:43  
When we first started the business, not even when we first started it but even until the past few weeks a month, you know, I would get very stressed about certain things, you know, because you don't you know, I hate wasting time and I hate wasting lovely produce and things but you know, so Crikey. For example. When I by mistake, you know, I tripped and spilled five kilos of chocolate sorbet on the floor. And you just Gosh, I would, I would, you know, it would drive me crazy. But it was interesting, really interesting talking to absolutely lovely friends of ours who who are in the company or mighty foods. And they they make incredible vegan chocolate, and wonderful sort of nut products. So we buy from them. wonderful, fantastic. Hazel, nut butters and almond butters. And that's how we make our lovely haze much lighter. And Darwin gelato. And, you know, they told us it's a joke, every single day, something goes wrong, you know, we've had, we've had to sometimes kiss goodbye to 160 kilos of freshly made arm and paste just because something went wrong, it contaminating, you know, when you sort of hear the religious, he just can't, you've just got to let it go. You've got to let it go. And just because otherwise, you'll you'll lose all your hair, and you'll just drive yourself crazy. It's just stuff happens. And so it was really interesting. Listening to that, and, you know, just, I guess it's all about learning to cope and not always putting massive pressure on yourself. And I guess, you know, obviously being prepared. You know, it's we do a lot of just the past few days, we've been writing list after list after list, you know, what do we got to buy? What have we got to prepare? What are the things we've got to do? running up to the show leading up to the opening, you know, what have you got to do step by step by step because, you know, otherwise stuff will go wrong for sure.

Independent Thinking  27:41  
But when it's your business, I think that's the difference, isn't it? Isn't it? Because I think it's all your decision making or your Lucy's decision making? Because it's actually and I think that's really empowering. Because even when it does get tricky, or you know, when you talk gosh, that I can just imagine I can imagine dropping that Oh, sorry, How upsetting that must have been. But I suppose it's all within as in like it's old, your decisions that you're making, you're in complete control of where the company's going, you get your side kind of creatively where you're taking it. So it's a different type. I imagine a different a different stress over, you know, to perhaps working for a company that is you know, what decisions you can't impact you know, in the same way.

Joe, Joelato  28:22  
That's right, it is it is immensely that's, that's one of the things I love the most is that it's it's it's any success we have is down to the hard work that we've put in and that is immensely rewarding. But Flipside any huge mistakes that happen they're also your fault. Yeah. Rough with the smooth but but yes, no, it's I certainly couldn't do without my wife Lucy, that's for sure. She she's her I don't know. Yeah, she she makes it all possible. She's got the organisational skills and the one so many other skills that just that just make it all possible so she you know, she she's you know, she's just got so switched on and got such a sensible head on her shoulders. But she's got the most incredible taste buds as well. So when it comes to recipe development, I I suppose I create refined most of the recipes, but very much it's a case of you know, we do endless taste testing so you know, any ice cream and she comes up with a lot of the ideas as well. So when it comes to the comes to the ice cream, it's very much a joint effort, you know, the resulting quality what what has allowed us to build our business. I think we wouldn't be where we are now, which is still very much in the early days. But doing our own deliveries delivering our ice cream ourselves with Lucy and I in the van 12 hours a day, saying hi to every single customer and in developing those relationships was absolutely key. You know, I count many of our customers now as friends. And I think that was what generated the word of mouth. I think it's those relationships we built. So we, yeah, that's something that we still want to absolutely carry on.

Independent Thinking  30:16  
And that's the kind of beauty of a bricks and mortars place, isn't it? Is that, you know, I think you've obviously built up that relationship by, you know, mail order and delivery and all of that. But that's something that the bricks and mortar experience gives that you it's just second to none, isn't it about building that rapport and getting those regulars coming in every day knowing what they love? And, and I think that's something, obviously, you're instilling that in your team ahead of you opening is about that kind of, yeah, building up that rapport?

Joe, Joelato  30:45  
Yeah, no, I think so. I mean, I, what I, what I wouldn't want to do is to, is to keep, I mean, I see where we'd have to go, for example, if we decide, you know, what, let's build the delivery side of things, I think the next step would be to sadly, give up on that very direct customer relationship, because we'd have to employ someone else to do the delivery for us, for example, or we'd have to go down the postal route, which, which I haven't really figured out, because it all seems very expensive. Which would be sad, you know, I wouldn't want to sort of be I know you can, you can try and develop really great marketing communications via you know, by clever email marketing, and, and, and then social media, but you'd have to employ, we'd have to probably employ someone to do a social media marketing, which again, you then you're losing the source of your those relationships, which, which, which would be sad, you know, so I guess that's why we wanted to go again, the real goal was to do the bricks and mortar eventually, I suppose. Because Yeah, we were sociable people we like we like having that contact with people.

Independent Thinking  31:54  
And again, it's about that just when you're mentioning about somebody sent to you, why not just go into stock in a, you know, supermarket, and it's I was listening to a podcast the other day with him, the one of the directors of Cook. And she was saying, Well, yeah, we could do that. And exactly, as you said, Yeah. But overall, we could do that. But also, you completely lose control. And there's a huge amount of kind of creative control the supermarket asked for, there's a huge amount of input they asked for in your decision making. And there's something we talk at a time and again, with independent retailers is that it's about remaining as close as you can to that decision making process. So there's, you know, that's why overall, that's why you're setting up your business. So you don't have rungs and rungs of like people to sign off and things you have that kind of agility of decision making. And you're so much closer to the customer and to the product, which is just, yeah, really special.

Joe, Joelato  32:46  
Yeah, and also, you know, you'd Well, first of all the one of the main reasons, we wouldn't want to go down that I suppose the lesser quality, you know, just selling mass to the supermarket is the all of a sudden, okay, you've got to give up on using those wonderful products that you like using, you've got to, you've got to do it in a much more hands off sort of automated machinery sort of way, which, again, wouldn't give me a huge amount of pleasure. And but I suppose again, looking at it from you from a business remarketing point of view, there are companies already doing that very, very well. You know, there's any number of dairies that have turned themselves into sort of ice cream companies, who are who feel that price back up very, very well. And what's the point of us trying to compete with them? They're already doing that the you know, the city.

Independent Thinking  33:41  
Yeah, absolutely. So we're now sitting at you know, three four days, I mean, well, three sleeps or something three sleeps into the oven. And the easiest way sometimes to calculate things what can people what can people look forward to? What is the kind of feeling you want them to place to be in by breath? What What can people expect from to come to you at Bonnie & Wild?

Joe, Joelato  34:05  
Well, for one, it is just a beautiful space. It is so impressive the way they've the way they've done it, it's, it's, it feels like top top quality without being intimidating. There's no sort of like, well shouldn't be here in this I have 5 million pounds in my pocket. It's not that sort of place. But it's just a lovely lovely space. And I think the I think the smell and the buzz and the sound of fantasy, fantastic cooks working away, you know, alongside us we've got chicks, which is run by a guy who was who was trained at the was trained by Heston Blumenthal at the the fat, the fat, pig nose and the Fat Duck The Fat Duck. Yes, I mean, Crikey. I can't wait to try his, his food. It's a sort of, it's a sort of take on KFC, but you know, somewhat much more on market. And then along from there, we've got these pizzas You make superb, superb, sourdough pizzas. You've also got Chilean salts, one of the places I'm most looking forward to, which is a sort of Sichuan street food from from Glasgow, who's really made waves over there. And, you know, I really can't wait to try his his stuff. So it should be you know, and it's all I just think for to to experience that. That buzz again, as I say, the smells, the sounds of the cooking and the, you know, you know, just lots of people under one roof, just having a lovely time and enjoying great food. I think it'll be wonderful. I mean, just just for us, what we're going to be doing is offering the daily specials and weekly specials, you know, basically, lovely, lovely gelato that are seasonal and made fresh every single day. And then, you know, some of the classics like really beautiful vanilla or pistachio, but then you know more interesting flavours like we do a grapefruit and basil sorbet, a black currant and mascarpone sort of all sorts of flavours that we love to me.

Independent Thinking  36:09  
And hugely excited to be part of, I mean, what a wonderful time for you anyway. And, and for the company and for the new employees. It's just, I think it's always exciting to be part of something as this beginning and what you know, and watching it where it goes next. And as people can come with you, which is really exciting. So we're kind of coming to the end of our time together. I wonder if I can ask you I wonder if I can ask you actually What is your favourite flavour to make? Is there one that's actually kind of in terms of the way that you bring it together? Is there anything that's your favourite?

Joe, Joelato  36:41  
Oh, that's a tricky one. I would say I would say it's the ones that involve a few processes and notes throughout you know you're getting I mean, it sounds maybe a little bit boring but I do love making something like a pistachio because you know we start with the raw pistachios we roast them so then you soon as they start roasting them the kitchen just fills with the smell of amazing roasting pistachios. And then you know our next step is just to blitz butter so yeah, again just epic smells of pistachios wafting through the through the through the kitchen and and then yet the the the the end results, you know we would like to seize on a lot of natural artists who sees me with a bit of salt and yeah, it's just it is a is a wonderful, wonderful flavour. I suppose it's one that's a true true pistachio gelato. Again, I think outside of maybe somewhere like London, you know, unless you're gonna go to Italy, it's pretty hard to find a truly great pistachio ice cream or chill artists so I really enjoy making making that one but it's some of the others like today, Lucy was infusing a load of fresh mint in some custard. So we're gonna be offering fresh mint and gelato on Thursday. And it's it's those were the you know, the smell in the kitchens just insane. And it's, it's lovely to work with fresh Herbes so it's those that there were there's a bit of infusing and that sort of stuff was bring me a lot of pleasure.

Independent Thinking  38:10  
Oh, one awesome wonderful pistachios to me I think is the best it's the best of all the flavours. I mean, I love all that kind of the more that the beloved unusual ones. But for me, pistachio really can't be a good process. He was like, brilliant. Well, wishing you a huge amount of luck. And yeah, just I think it's just a wonderful time for ages with a really exciting time for you. So watching a huge amount for the for the you and your team and opening on Thursday. And I will be absolutely first online I can always look forward to visiting for sure. Thank you so much. Thank you so much for having us on.

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