Independent Thinking - Exploring a new era for retail and the high street

Building an ethical brand & the wonders of immersive retail spaces with Treen, Edinburgh (St Stephen Street Series)

November 16, 2020 Alexandra Season 1 Episode 7
Independent Thinking - Exploring a new era for retail and the high street
Building an ethical brand & the wonders of immersive retail spaces with Treen, Edinburgh (St Stephen Street Series)
Show Notes Transcript

As we continue our St Stephen Street Series, I’m delighted to be joined by vegan fashion retailer, Treen. 

We talk to owner, Cat about her incredible approach to this extraordinary year, her drive for the business and why she loves to go above and beyond for her customers. Cat has an infectious energy and passion for her business, and talks with such warmth and enthusiasm about the community she's created - this episode is another one that's perfect for starting your week on the right foot. Enjoy.

Independent Businesses mentioned in the episode: 

  • Treen: (Vegan fashion retailer): https://shoptreen.com/
  • Grams: (Vegan Cafe and Meal Prep)  https://www.gramsedinburgh.com/ 
  • Meraki Concept Studio: (Branding Consultancy) https://www.merakiconceptstudio.com/
  • Custom Lane: (Studio/Exhibition Space/Community) https://customlane.co/
  • Plant Bae: (Plant-based cafe) https://www.heyplantbae.co.uk
  • Century General Store: (Lifestyle store/Cafe) https://www.centurygeneralstore.com/
  • Our Lovely Goods: (Candle makers/Lifestyle and workshops): https://ourlovelygoods.com/
  • Space at Seventeen (Pop Up Space): https://www.instagram.com/spaceatseventeen/
  • Bon Tot: (Childrenswear & Sustainable Lifestyle) https://www.bon-tot.com/



Support the show
Independent Thinking:

Hello, and welcome to Independent Thinking, the podcast exploring a new era for the high street, we celebrate those who are doing wonderful, creative things, in the most difficult of circumstances; we'll be going behind the scenes of businesses and shops you love, that you look forward to visiting and that add joy to your high streets. I'm your host, Alexandra.Welcome along. As we continue our St Stephens Street series, I'm delighted to be joined by a business who has been named checked in a number of our episodes to date, based in what some have called the best site on the street - vegan fashion retailer Treen. We talked to owner, Cat, about her incredible approach to this year, her drive for the business and why she loves to go above and beyond for her customers. Hello, and welcome to the podcast Cat. Lovely to have you on.

Cat, Treen:

Hello, I'm so glad to be here. Thank you all very much for inviting.

Independent Thinking:

Not at all! So for listeners, we're recording on a very, very misty, classicly kind of 'Edinburgh' morning with the harr coming in. And I was reading your blog posts on your website this morning. And just feeling so motivated by just reading about your story. I think you've just got such an interesting founder story. So yeah, I think it's gonna be a really exciting time to speak to you!

Cat, Treen:

Glad you enjoyed it!

Independent Thinking:

And let's start there, then I think you talk on your website and on your blog about you becoming a vegan, and that this transition that you saw in your diet, was not necessarily translating to the clothes in your wardrobe and seeing that disconnect. So I wondered if you could just tell us a little bit more about how you began the business? How you established Treen?

Cat, Treen:

Of course. So yeah, like you said, it really was - I was looking for a number of ways to update my lifestyle to be more sustainable and to be kinder and a little bit more on the ethical side. So I'm starting completely from scratch, you know, watching a couple of things on Netflix, falling into forums, falling down rabbit holes on Instagram, all that type of stuff, and just trying to make sure I'm managing it well enough, you know, I'm not getting overwhelmed. And this is something I really feel quite passionate about. Now I want to dive in with both feet head first kind of thing. And I loved all the information that I found. I mean, for me, I've said this quite a few times, but it really was doing what you love the most first, like starting from the top down. So for me, I'm, I always have been, as in I've drawn shopfronts, since I was a five year old; I've designed packs of magazines, since I can remember - so fashion was my kind of number one. So I'm going to look to fashion first as well as what's on my plate. So the food thing just kind of, I feel like it got a lot of attention, first off, and the fashion thing came later for veganism, sustainability and ethics. Food was looked at very, very early on and makeup and cosmetics was looked at really early on, it kind of dove in with that, you know, it's happening, we're seeing it around you. And then for me, it was like the biggest other priority in my life is like clothing and what we're wearing and our personal style, and things like that. So really, it just was me finding it too difficult to align the two - finding as in plate and wardrobe, finding it too difficult to find brands. I would long after boots that they had that were vegan and made out of a really cool, innovative, new, non- plastic fabric. And they're in a completely different country, or there's crazy delivery, crazy customs to get them to me. And I did have at one point where I get this beautiful new pair of shoes, I literally paid the same price as the shoe for the shipping and customs. It's just just, this is not fair. So you're thinking this is not fair. It's 2018 at the time, we should be able to, you know, love what we wear, back up what we wear, and then really feel good about it at the same time. So that whole look good, feel good, do good thing. And it just was like, there are these brands out there, but they're not kind of clustered in a place that I personally would want to shop. It's the kind of the delivery, you know? These brands are doing so much already. There's only so much anyone can achieve. So it was almost like I wanted to go in and be like, "I think we can cluster this and we can make this a really cool vibey place to come and shop". Whether you're into this, whether you're at the beginning of your journey, whether you've been vegan since the day you were born and you're 55 or whether you're a bit like "I'm not really into that yet..." because in my mind, it's inevitable, we're all going to go, you know, things are going to get better, because they're just going to have to, that's going to come from the top down, it's going to come from governments and everything else. So this is like for us, I just wanted to make a special space that people could come in and shop effortlessly not have to feel that they're the odd one out, not have to feel that there may be asking a question, and someone doesn't know the answer to what they're asking. And then it gets back into that uncomfortable space. Again, fashion is supposed to be fun, and it's supposed to be, and it is literally a billboard of you. It's your, it's your ad for yourself, you have entire control. And it's such a fun, happy space. And I felt personally for me, I was losing that, it was falling through my hands like sand, this kind of, and that ultimately is identity. I wanted to pull all that back and have all this positivity behind it as well. And really just raise the bar for it's not good enough. If it's not x, y, z, it has to be all of these things that we're requesting and wrote down literally in a notepad, I still have it! Ten points to open, like how to launch or be a fashion retailer. And I started number one, and that was it.

Independent Thinking:

And what was number one?

Cat, Treen:

Number one - write a business plan, which will be number one, no matter what will do, it will be write a business plan. And it will help you immensely. Make it 50 pages long, like go big. And that's what we did. And it's really fun. And we have looked at the business plan, God, I don't 100 times, if not more, since we've launched just over a year ago. And it's the best because there's no one really above you anymore. You know, if you've worked in a, in a job where you have a senior or a general manager or something, you're all of them combined in one person, and the person who's executing the work as well. So it's a it's a different territory to move into. And so someone's got to hold someone accountable and kind of say, "Well, listen, you met those goals. We're moving on up like on to the next. Remember, you've already written what you want to do next. So can we go there? And how quickly can we get there?" So that's been fun.

Independent Thinking:

Amazing. I think this is why that's so funny isn't it? It's the least sexy part of owning a business. But it's the most crucial part to get it right to like nailing exactly what you want it to achieve.

Cat, Treen:

I learned Photoshop at uni many years ago, but we actually made it very beautiful. We've got like imagery in there. I am a visual person. I'm quite dyslexic. So I really need the visual side of things. All my revision books at school would be stick men fighting for history, little remembering steps, it was all that, so that's how we did it for us. Because I again, it's weird that you're writing basically for someone else, but it's for the future you, you're not writing actually for I mean, it might be for someone who is going to collaborate on business with you or anything like that. Ultimately, it's to check in with yourself. So I quite like ours, it's quite fun.

Independent Thinking:

Oh, good. That's what it should build be like, I think all business plans should be inspiring to the people writing them not only to the investors who are your backing you. I think that something you mentioned about getting the space that is that feels welcoming...I think that the feeling of the store is clearly from the very beginning something that's really important to you, that you sort of create this place that would be welcoming for like you say, people who are really aware of vegan lifestyles, and like that was why they were coming in, to people who actually were attracted by the product, and then they just happen to learn that they were sustainable and ethically sourced. Yeah. How did you begin building that brand? Because you're, you've got such a strong identity. And yeah, what was the jumping off point for you?

Cat, Treen:

Yes, so it really just came from years of inspiration. So I mean, think things that I'd saved 5,6,7 years before on Pinterest boards and sketchbooks and stuff like that - all of that stuff was now coming to...This was saved for a reason. And I mean it was really interesting to think about. There's so many angles, because if you're going to be a physical store and an online store and on social networks and all of this stuff. There's so many different angles so we had to discuss tone of voice. Are we going to have men involved or is it women only? Are we exclusive to certain brands? Like being a retailer it means that you, you know, you're kind of wide open - we're then speaking on behalf of them and on behalf of it through our eyes, and through our personal styles. There's so so much that went into it but that for me is is electric. I love that stuff, I love as much information as possible and as much demand for "Yes, this is beautiful, but it doesn't have an impact. On those people.","This is beautiful, but it will not resonate with people of a certain age group". It's like right, then it needs to get out. And we need to start again. So it was this whole, like, it needs to be entirely inclusive. And I didn't want our age range... Yes, of course, everybody has their views and their dream, target customer, all of like this one person walking through the door. But I kept saying, I really want to check that box off, but also slightly ignore it. And I really want to keep this as wide open as possible. And our goal was to have our customer age ranging from you know, 18 to 65. And I'm so pleased to say that that is who we shop together with in the business - that is our customer. Obviously, there's higher percentages of certain ages. But that's, that's the general. So really, like building it was just getting every piece of information, we needed to get every idea down on paper, and then starting to come up with things like the name and I spent days on this and Treen was the original, and I should have just actually gone with Treen. So Treen is my name, Treen is a nickname of mine. I'm Katrina and my family call my Treen. I love stories that have a name above the door for me, it just never felt. I don't know, I just it never clicked with me. Maybe I don't like to look of my name, it just, it wasn't quite right for me. So this is a little bit of me, because obviously, it's my brainchild. And it's you know, the beginning of it, but I've always envisioned that it will be handed on or it will grow or like Treen's the way we talk about her in the store like she's, well she and he - they're a living, breathing thing that is like this creature that we all talk about all the time, that is really into obviously, fashion and everything that we do. And then he'll evolve. And they'll go to different places. And they'll live in different stores and all of this stuff. So it's kind of strange, the way we talk about it, we need to continue to nurture him and her out because you can't live without us. So that's what we kept talking about at the beginning - this Treen, like is she getting what she needs? is she getting enough energy? is she getting enough like the outlook, is the voice correct. So all of this sort of stuff in considered. And really that's the side that I love. I don't know, I love off the whole business the most! But I very seriously enjoy that part of pulling everything together. And the decision making because it's something I've only ever thought was a dream and would never be possible. And then for you now to be speaking to people like Meraki Concept Studio about Okay, I've pencil drawn our logo, I need this to be our logo. I don't know anything about fonts, I don't know anything about graphic design, and then talking about what website we use. And you know what, what's our first photoshoot going to look like and the 'killer wardrobe without killing the planet', the slogan, all of that coming together and being real, was I feel like I blacked out for a few months. It was just very amazingly surreal. It was super strange. And then for people to latch on. And think this is really cool. Oh, I'm really into this. I agree with you. I want to come what else you have to say there's nothing quite like that.

Independent Thinking:

It's so exciting when people share in that vision and there must have been a part of you that thinks actually, I've got something here, this is I've hit on something here that people are really connecting with. It's really speaking to, like a moment in the Zeitgeist as well as like, it's really this is what people want something that is not compromising on who they are, you know, and actually aligns with all the other principles in their life.

Cat, Treen:

Definitely. I think that, you know, what I'm saying there without the electric side of things, doing what you believe in, and they're not being anything that you're kind of smothering and hiding behind the scenes and just it it I mean, it's so raw in that sense, this is our thoughts. This is what we want to put out there. And particularly at the beginning because there was no customer then of course we have an idea of but strictly speaking we haven't met one customer yet, when we just press launch on on social media and we just press launch on website. And then as we said for it to then keep coming back and you're getting that basically positive feedback from your customers who you're going to want to hang out with - that was incredible. I do remember waking up, I think it was the night or two before opening and having like 500 Instagram notifications.

Independent Thinking:

Oh my god!

Cat, Treen:

Oh my goodness! I was happy if we had that after a year! I was like it's it's happening, it's working but every day I still... I'm the worst for being like, you know, it's what else? Like this is great, but what else what else? What else? That's me thinking of this like creature that is treating like she's she's hungry. He's hungry. The best way and it's feeding this, feeding the fire and keep it going. Because it's working, so feels really good.

Independent Thinking:

Oh, so delighted to hear that! I think you deserve the only the best, I think it's such a beautiful concept. And actually, I think you really embody how, like you can have sustainable development, if that makes sense, of a business you can I can, you can still be wanting success, be ambitious, grow a business sustainably in an ethical way. And I think that that's, and it's just I think we're gonna see that more and more.

Cat, Treen:

I really think so. There was a man that was in shopping right at beginning of Treen in our in our tiny little pop-up, just like last June. And he was saying, what are you going to do when everybody else does this? And I was like, would be brilliant! I was like, let's clear out a street somewhere. And we can just make that happen? Are you with me? And I kind of loved that. And it was but it was also a great insight to you know, there are so many perspectives out there, there is just so much information to take in. And it depends on age, it depends on your location, it depends on priorities in your life at whatever point of your life you're in. So layers to what your sustainable lifestyle and your ethical lifestyle looks like. So I find that really, really interesting. And I do completely believe we will get there and it will be a really cool space.

Independent Thinking:

Absolutely. So take us back to you actually getting that physical space, you've written your business plan. Well, that's step one. And you're working through those 10, I love that idea! A 10 step plan. I feel like I feel like this is going to be a business book in the future.

Cat, Treen:

So I was I'm quite proud of it.

Independent Thinking:

I love it!

Cat, Treen:

Hmm, this one's full, I need a new piece of paper!

Independent Thinking:

So how did you how did you start? So you had the pop up right right on St Stephen's street. So you had that to begin with and then tell us how you evolved from there. How did you find that initialspot?

Cat, Treen:

Like you said, we went and popped up at Space at 17 for three months and thought that was gonna feel like forever it we blinked and it was over. A fun story; we said sort of inverted commas, "Yes" I pretty much air handshake yes to the store that we are now in the day, the evening after our launch on the day that we launched our business. So obviously I've got my partner Harris who's great, and he helps out with a lot of sides of the business saying listen, let's just test it out for a couple of weeks. Because you never know. I knew I knew! I was like we're gonna have a physical space it's literally the dream. I don't know I can't imagine Treen without it. And then you we kind of get low key recommended for this space like would you/wouldn't you - What's your thoughts? And I'm just Yes. Done! Right now on the spot! Let's make it happen. Let's do this. So that that kind of idea floated along for a while - will we get it, won't we get it. Let's see what happens. So I'm obviously feel incredible that we are now in that actual space further down the street. But I'm jumping ahead. So after the pop up, we moved into Custom Lane actually, down in Leith by the shore. And we got a lovely, lovely studio in there upstairs. So not a physical retail space. It was a space for us. And you know, trying to keep existing keep living. It was a nice point really to focus on the online because it had launched but it was not kind of at the top of my priority list every day. That was having the store open, meeting physical people live in person and shopping together with them. So it's actually really nice to have gone through the pop up and be like, Okay, how did it go? What goals did we meet all of this stuff happening together? We were upstairs next to incredible creatives. It was really amazing to be in that headspace with all of them together. I mean, you're standing in line for coffee and people are saying "Have you ever met this photographer? Have you seen this cool jeweller?" So such a wonderful space. And I have nothing but respect for Custom Lane and Gras the architects firm that work from there and everything that they do. And we did have a bunch of pop ups down there. And we met loads of different people completely different customers than who we met in Space at 17 and that really was great to happen so quickly within our first six or four months. Because that idea that I was explaining before about Treen being in different locations or meeting different people was a kind of mini reality. Yes, it's still in Edinburgh, but it's amazing to see different people shop different product, different styles, shop different products, you move it to another side of a city and the the range of what we're you know, the display I was putting out was completely different. Almost subconsciously, it's like, I don't think they'll resonate with what we had in Stockbridge, it needs to be the same different. So all really interesting. And that was just for a couple of months there. And then we very kindly were recommended for space opposite, where we began in the pop up back on St. Stephen's Street. So we did a little leap down to Leith and we came back up on the street, and really started to feel we belong here. I mean, I knew it from the first week in our first pop up. But the really, really felt like we belong here. These are genuine friendships, the street has been nothing but incredibly welcoming to us. And I think you just know when you know, there's not really another way for me to explain it. But that feeling of belonging is quite powerful. So we got the keys for a space across from lovely Space at, 17 number 12. And we had a week to flip it, to turn it around. Water was turned off, there was no electricity. Of course, I've already posted on Instagram saying we're having a drinks party. And that's normal(!) And it's like, oh, well, we're gonna have to make this work - call anyone you know, and I need to call it a little favours. But we don't have the table, the round table that we had in the centre of the shop, and I'm a huge secondhand furniture person, I'm a big eBay person. So that arrived, the table and the lampshades that were purchased on eBay first, arrived last - 15 minutes before we opened - I was like "give us two seconds(!)" We folded all of these clothes, popped them on. And then bam, there you go. First person's allowed to come in, oh, my goodness, I'm in the new Treen! - shares on their Instagram story. And we're just back, we're back in the the space that we love the most. Just like that - it happened again. And it was so great to be back in a physical space that was open every day, that customers could come into. And I just love the fact that obviously we're constantly thinking, how do we communicate is enough? Is it obvious? Is it clear enough? And you know, we're really asking people to pay quite close attention so that they're realising, oh, we're here and I we're here. And I love that people stuck with us and bared with us as we, as we went through those motions, that space was only supposed to be temporary. And so that - well it was, it was for really meant to be for three, four months, and we would have moved into our new bigger, permanent space. And it took a little bit longer, no big deal was more than happy in there. It meant we could go through Christmas, we could get through into the new year, that meant spring/summer started to arrive. And we're very excited by that. So it's all fine. And then obviously we go into lockdown. And it's just you know, then it was like, Well, you know what we'll be we'll be this is no one's fault. There is you know, it's kind of a hands up, uncontrollable situation. Obviously, we know the rules. So we know what we need to do now. It just meant that we just had to ride that wave. And as soon as it was able to have work begin on the new space for us to move in, then we would get cracking and the focus basically shifted to shifted to lockdown and running things as an online retailer. And then coming out zoom forward, which feels like five years later. Through lockdown and today then obviously, just over a month ago, we moved into a bigger space. A lot of people call it the flagship on the street, which also low key terrifies me, the corner space on St Stephen Street so we left for five minutes. But we knew we needed to be on the street and it feels incredible to be in that stunning store. I'm honoured to be in there with the business - it is truly amazing space. So feels really good.

Independent Thinking:

Oh, congratulations, by the way on the on the new space. It is absolutely beautiful. And I love how passionate you are about business, generally, but about the importance of physical retail in the physical retail space. And what that brings to the customer experience I think because it's particularly in clothing like, yeah you can shop online and I think that you your your whole concept translates beautifully onto your website and that you can get that sense of who you are. But there's just nothing like it is there about there's nothing like about being immersed in the space that is...

Cat, Treen:

No like I really am. And people ask me this often - Where does that come from? Obviously, I've had great experience in retail. I'm so grateful for the jobs that I'd had prior. And I think it is that hyper visual thing as well. I've just always been really, really, really overly critical but in a good way. Like I'm trying to find opportunities. Places I've been before or in spaces that we've created so that we can just do it better. How can we always I'm constantly looking upwards. How can we constantly do this better? Okay, that went really well. What would it look like if we did this on top too? And just always kind of be that way, like, but massive about the five senses, you know, sight, smell, touch, etc. Huge on that. And I, apparently, maybe this is related to retail, maybe not. But I find this such an interesting statistic - when you meet someone for the first time, apparently you make 11 judgments without being just automatically will do that a minimum of 11 judgments. So it's like they are from here, they dress this way, they look this way, your subconscious thinking all of these things. I'm like, What do you think space that is targeted at you is trying to be like, we think we're all of these things. So I run away with all these ideas constantly. And obviously take inspiration, if we've ever you know, travelled into I've been gone to cool shops or places I've previously worked. It is obviously great to have that experience. And but with Treen, it then meant anything that ever anyone's ever maybe been like that's not really us, or I'm not really sure that would fit you kind of because it's your own business, you get to do all the ideas, which is amazing.

Independent Thinking:

Yeah. That's the most exciting bit!

Cat, Treen:

Definitely. From day one, I've been so big on store experience and customer experience. I'm a huge, the team will laugh when they listen to this, but I'm a massive believer in the Platinum rule. So that is treating people how they wish to be treated, which is the golden rule is treating people how you think they want to be treated. So I always trying for us to reach ahead. And we're, you know, guesstimating slightly, but thinking how, how do we think they would want us to respond, which means basically, you're adapting to every single customer that you meet. You're adapting to different personal styles, different voices, different ways, you know, of your personality types, all of this stuff. And I just love all of that. It's so exciting. because no two people are the same.

Independent Thinking:

And love is that Platinum rule is that yours? Is that another one for the book?!

Cat, Treen:

I don't know where that's from, I just learned that that will maybe it should be the title.

Independent Thinking:

I love that that's so true. Because it makes such a difference. And I've actually I must say, like when I was in a couple of weeks, a week or so ago. Remember your team was just so enthused! Because actually, I was talking about the hand sanitizer, which I've talked about in the previous episode. And how you've taken something that is, I mean, it's mundane at the best of times hand sanitizer, but to again, to take that idea of like it can smell beautiful, it can make it it doesn't have to be a chore, you can make it into something that's actually a nice part of the experience you come in, you've got a beautiful scent. And and your your team really, yeah, I think it really encapsulates that beautifully. And I think it's just that welcoming. A welcoming team is just so important.

Cat, Treen:

If we want people to feel that they're welcome. At any time. Some times people just come in and they're like, I just can I just talk to you for five minutes? Can I just tell you something? Because I've got something going on. Of course you can! We are Yes, primarily we are a fashion retailer, that's great. But if you need something else right now, and you think you can get it from us, then we're there for you. And I'm huge on that! There's not going to be you know, if a task doesn't get finished, it can wait. It can be pushed, it can go on to tomorrow, as long as we've helped out someone that's kind of in our community and connected or someone that maybe we've never met. And we talked about this with the team a little bit more last week of really the idea that everyone can leave with a memory. And obviously, if that's something from Treen, that's fantastic. But if it's a conversation, or many times we've booked reservations for people at restaurants, or we, the lady last year, she was in desperate need of having her hair done, because of a huge delays with travel. And it's like I know a guy, just don't...you walk around the shop and we'll get this sorted for you because you don't need right now. And I just I just like think that's fun. We need a little little PA at the store! Really, really because that's just we can actually help you right now rather than well,"That's not really my job description. So I'm just going to let you carry around that problem". That for me goes in the five senses of how you feel when you're in the space if we can offload something for you so you feel a bit better today. That's what I'd like us to try and do.

Independent Thinking:

Gosh, what an amazing, that's such an amazing philosophy. Yeah, absolutely. And when we think about your your collection, then when you began creating and curating this collection that you've got in the store at the moment, I mean has first of all has it gotten easier to find vegan suppliers or to kind of shop more ethically, just in terms of when you're looking for brands to, to work with, is that something that's starting to open up, that market start to get bigger?

Cat, Treen:

Definitely, definitely easier. Definitely. First off, I will say that because then people originally when we're launching, we know who they are, and they are like, you could be anyone or you could fail in 5 minutes. Or like, you know, that's more kind of we'd really present and be like, this is what we project for ourselves. We know we're going to be this - trust us. We like your brand. Whereas now, it's kind of cool that people reach us and are like, no, we're going to be great. You want to you want to talk to us. So we're now in a cool space, where it obviously depends on what size you are as a brand, if it's something that suits the store, and all these things come into it. But it is quite cool that it's now like an even playing field sort of thing, that we can just speak as two businesses that are working and discuss how would this look if we were to collaborate together? So yes, it is easier because instead of just the team looking for people, it's we now have it kind of ping pong going back and forth. So what maybe we reach out to five brands and then five brands will reach out, different brands, will reach out to us which opens up the pool of what we can dive in and check out and see if it works for our customers.

Independent Thinking:

So what was important to you when with the brands that you were starting to align yourself with with the ones when you initially opened up? You think "yes there that there's some key people I really want to stock" and then do some exploring or...

Cat, Treen:

Yeah, I mean, I kind of feel like everyone has their thing that they do when they're sat on the sofa or go to bed or something - on their phone on their devices. And I would fall down rabbit holes of brands - showing you another brand, showing another brand... saving, saving, I did this for like two years before we opened Treen, and came to that part of the business plan that was like, Oh, no, we can focus on this other area for another day. Because that I'm excited about and there wasn't this, okay, who's going to be first, it was kind of like, let's just reach out. And this is basically what it's like with your own business - you reach out. And obviously you have to come to an agreement of this is what's going to work for us. We both agree it's very well suited. And obviously on top of that, we have all of our kind of expectations, we do want things to be made by people that are paid fairly, if not more, are looked after and are happy in their jobs, we do want things to be made from innovative, sustainable, kind to the planet materials. And we also want them to just leave animals alone. So we have all of those kind of boxes that we want to take. And of course, the golden box at the top is that it's something beautiful that you actually want. Where I got stuck so often with myself because it was like Well, I mean, I guess I need that black t shirt. Like I don't I don't want where it's coming from, I don't want to really buy in, but I blooming need the T shirt. So let's do this. Wanted to avoid that at all costs, it had to literally be quite the opposite of that feeling like I'm going to turn the bag around. So you see where I got this. I want to celebrate, I want to show my friends where I got this, I want to tell someone"you would love this place you need to go and find this place because I think you'll get what you're needing". So brands obviously are everything that would help build that up with us together. So yeah, I had I had a little list of quite a few of them are still on the list that we're talking to - we have some incredible brands coming in before the end of the year that I'm super, super excited about, that we've been talking to you since day one and it's kind of cool to be like man, it's been a year and now we're going to do this this is very exciting. So yes, I mean Another point that I want to make with this conversation is obviously talking to these brands is so lovely and even more so doesn't feel like work because we're talking about the same tree you know, I'm meant 20 questions and they're not coming back to me saying why you know why? Why the bar so high? Why are you being so picky? No, we're going to give you 50 answers back and did you even know we did this and how about this? Why don't we send you pictures of stuff? Why don't we give you direct contact to our warehouse manager? all of this - so I guess it's more work but it's very, very, very enjoyable and like blows my mind completely - that just brands... I've never worked anywhere with brands that willing and that open to share anything because you know they might get caught out or information might come up that's not really relevant and they want to share everything with us everything. Like 'Did you know we did this with our packaging? We're changing something in 3 months and we think you should know, are you okay? If we change to biodegradable packets that your deliveries will arrive in, would you rather have them unpacked? So you don't have to dispose of that yourselves? We're changing our labels, which ones do you think your customers would respond to the most? These are recyclable. These are biodegradable... it's so interesting. And just yeah, it's like, as if you even want our opinion, I love that. You know, we are kind of a version of their customer as well. They can borrow our customers to talk to that stuff, about that stuff to also sorts of really, really a cool space. So yes, I think it takes longer and yes, it's possibly, arguably, more work, but it would not be Treen, and we wouldn't be getting Treen what she needs, if we weren't doing all of those things. So it's pretty cool.

Independent Thinking:

Very cool. I think that synergy between brands as well, when you find somebody who... it's like with anything, if you find somebody, like in a in a friendship, or you find somebody in a business sense, anytime you just align yourself to actually "god this, this really works, they totally get what I'm asking". And it's not a chore.

Cat, Treen:

It's not a chore. And it's Yeah, it's a relationship.

Independent Thinking:

Exactly. Rather than a collaboration is it is more than that. You're right. And it's so lovely that we see people who work for the brands pop up on our orders. And their things that I love based on dm and stuff, and we're doing it back to them. So we're all together, we have a working relationship. But we also there's like a consumer relationship there as well from either side of us, which is really special. You know, it's all genuine. It's I actually believe I'm not saying this because I'm clocked in I actually believe in what you do. And that in my work life and in my personal life, which is really nice. So in terms of building a community, then, and that sense of being part of something when you're shopping, who in independent retail is really inspiring you, who's leading the charge in that way?

Cat, Treen:

I mean, locally, if I can, there are just... Edinburgh is just... I mean, I feel Stockbridge is having a moment.

Independent Thinking:

It really is! It feels like everyone's moving there right now!

Cat, Treen:

Like trying to get space... like, it's hard enough! But obviously during COVID I'm like I just love that it's still, as in demand when there's not even people out on the streets. It's still in demand. It's fantastic. And so really happy about that. So Stockbridge wise, I think a lot of people will know that Gram's are moving around the corner from our store popped up and opposite ours. When we all reopened post lockdown, they were opposite the street from us in the space that we were in Space at 17, got to know them really well, and how passionate they are with their business. And it's just really amazing meeting other business owners. And you know, I'll say something that I feel people would think is bonkers. And Bill, you know, then they'll be like, "Oh, my goodness, me too. That happened to us a couple of months ago!" You're like, oh it's not just me? And you know, just that the fact that they were 24/7 at it during lockdown as well, who wasn't? So I'm really, really pleased that they're moving in round the corner and that they're just saying, "whatever, screw it. I don't care about what's happening this year. We're doing what we said we would do. And we're gonna make it work". And obviously they've changed their Haymarket location into Plant Bae. I think that's fantastic as well. They made their own mayonnaise, for goodness sakes called Baeyonnaise! Love it. So that was a highlight for me, the bayonnaise! Century General, I have a lot of time for. And I feel like with everything that has gone on this year, they have found...they had a voice, a very clear voice. It's been heard more, and I just love that. And I feel like I've looked to them a number of times, like what their opinion on this was their chat here. How are they responding to certain things and just, you know, how they... on their posts, they just speak, it's just someone is speaking there, it's not kind of trying to be anything else. It's very, it's very honest. And I and I love that and I do love that. And, and a brand. Another brand that I feel does the same thing is Ebi and Emmanuel from Our Lovely Goods, and we just we chat a lot on dm and they're just they're just a lovely, lovely business. They've also popped up in the space that we started in in Space at 17. Yeah, throwback ago, but they were in there and we got to know them when they were in the space. So that store on our street is magical because of how much it builds business relationships and relationships for people in the community, shopping from those brands. It is really really special. And I mean another one I have to shout out to, have to throw the shoutout back to Kris from Bon Tot - because that was a compliment on her podcast with you - but preach! Like are you kidding?! That you're not open again, like you do you, the fact that she just does what is best for her ,I admire so much - I'm always like, I don't know how she feels...you know she's always so okay with that because it works for her. And I take a lot of... I admire that a lot and their buyback scheme that is within trying to do something similar like that. So I just love love love love the energy that they have over there and now we are directly opposite so we can wave to them across the window. Well, I honestly the list is endless so... but there are some people that have popped into my head straight away that I've been following for the last wee while.

Independent Thinking:

Yeah, and that community you talk about as well - that not only within Stockbridge and within St Stephen Street itself, but that community across Edinburgh and and wider because obviously Our Lovely Goods of course up in Aberdeen; but it's that feeling of that and you've got so much to share, things to collaborate, you could you could get together on, you could just share experiences - I just I think that is such a positive; I think that's why independent business is so special because you've got founders who are like yourself - creatively passionate, really ambitious but really skilled and really you know, you know your stuff and I think you've got lots to share with other people. There's like a thread running, I feel like we have this like invisible thread kind of connected and I have never worked, I've only given a percent of my life to independent, I really didn't know it that much before at all and the sense of belonging is overwhelming in the best possible way; that you are just you know, all are welcome it there's no... the door's never closed, it's 'I'm here for you' that kind of constant support network is fantastic. So it's so good - if anyone's thinking about this, you should do it! And who cares what's going on in the world right now? It's so possible, which is a cool space to be in. And yeah, like you say, I think what can be achieved at a particularly difficult time for for the high street, obviously we're seeing non essential retail in England close for the next month. And at the moment we're recording on a Tuesday the 10th ahead of another government announcement again, so it could shift for us. And but yeah, if we could just talk about how, and Kristina put it beautifully. You know, during lockdown you took the flagship store, let's say of St Stephen Street, this beautiful corner unit and you transformed it into this, you know immersive experience. And can you tell us a little bit about that journey and how that was during during lockdown, how lockdown's been for you during this really exceptional time? Yeah.

Cat, Treen:

I mean, lockdown for us was...I genuinely jumped to incredible as the first word... I mean, there was so much negativity going on everywhere. But I do have to say there was a lot of silver linings. So we were leaning in to those silver linings, all we knew that we had to do was play by the rules and follow direction and kind of outside of that anything else was possible, really, working from home. And so everything you know, it was you know, I work from home and I just couldn't I was like, but "I can but we can still work from the shop. Right?!" No, it's like, get your things and go home and be safe. So it was in my head immediately and I tend to do this and I'll it's the same with thinking of the name for Treen, I'll have an idea of how something will work I'll float around all the other options and I keep coming back to the original idea because it's - Go with your gut! I was like, we need to take one of everything, clear the spare room, I don't live in a large place so it was clearing a lot of space. I'm going to make like pop up in the spare room and it will look like Space at 17 and at least everything can be there so we can have our own content or the like everything that you saw in lockdown was you know, shot on my apartment and but actually that really was like... that's why I kind of say'incredible' because it's just anything is actually possible! So it was yeah let's let's pack up move on out. Obviously as people place orders that will happen...so the store which was not the flagship, it was the little one that we had before that turned into a warehouse/ fulfilment centre and we had like packing stations and everything there. And as lockdown got deeper and deeper, and we're only allowed out for 30 minutes. It's quite difficult because we have couriers, dog walks, needing to pick up things for orders; it was like this just isn't working. So we need to come up with another scenario that we're just in and out of the house, you know, limited amount of time per day. And, and basically, the whole home space turned into the hallway, we had like, orders going to this area of the world, orders going to that area of the world... It was cool. It was a situation no bolognaise, no curry (!), no nothing. Because the clothes, I mean, I'm joking, but I'm not, are like my children - they cannot be affected, ok?! So, um, that was quite funny. But I mean, an experience in itself, so needs must - it had to happen. And, and we had a crisis meeting like, right at the beginning, I think it was two days after we got the news. Like you have to we will lock down on Monday, I think it was, end of story. That's it. And everyone's frozen, getting their head together, like, but that's not possible. But I will I do this? How will I do this, we're all sort of figuring it out. And we have this meeting and we're thinking worst case scenario, careers will stop. And we will not be able to receive goods. So we're kind of we just are halted with what we have. And obviously trying to think of a worst case scenario, because just got to be realistic, right? And but what do we still have? So we have devices, we have all our community, nothing's changed with them. They're still there digitally, right? Where we left them. And we have our website that you can use at all times, all of those things. It was like, okay, so we had two channels, just put a big cross over the store. It's like it does not exist anymore. So we're going to pretend like we've never had a shop ever. And we are just an online retailer. So what do retailers do? Which we talk about every day having a store? Also? It was what what are we going to do now? And we started listing this Okay, what if we're an online retailer that can't fulfil any orders? What did they do? And it was like, really, and we were thinking,"Okay, so we're not going to be able to put through any any sales". But let's say I was like, What are our new goals, then? Let's try and meet X amount of new people. Let's try and you know, get engagement up on Instagram in certain areas, let's double or treble up on blogs, let's inject a huge amount more valuable content. Because if no one's going to be doing all of these things like shopping and buying, what are we going to be doing? So try and help them find something to do? And what are people going to turn to? Is it going to be books? Is it music? Is it movies? How can you genuinely spend your 30 minutes outside, but I mean, the meeting was like, long, but so incredible, and it really helped us just work out. This is who we're going to be - I said it from day one, we need to be a place of escapism that people can come - because that is borrowing the idea from the store, you know, talking about the feeling and the ambience and all of that needs to be a place of escapism, that they can come and hang out. And nothing else matters, except them hanging out iin Treen. And that's it. But how do we do that on in a digital sense? And then it just all sort of spilled off from there. And no idea was a bad idea. It was like, Okay, how can we make that work? What who writes that? How do we make it sound? When does it go out? You don't want one day literally just posted. I find myself just looking at cute animals. I was like, can we do a post with just cute animals just because?! Because...Saturday or something like that! And we got a really good response, like we just need people to smile and be like, it might be okay. And so if we can help deliver that for them, and then they feel comfortable in Treen, and they want to continue to hang out with us, then we've done our job. And and then we are now allowed to go back out and about a bit more. Oh, okay. Should we remember that store that we draw drew a huge x over Should we start to pop up again, because we have no got the keys for our new huge shop. So I quite liked that I switched it off for a minute. And nothing...I'm so pleased that nothing changed with the interiors. And actually I liked that the interiors had time to sit. And so that we felt Oh, we haven't done anything just because it's trend led. We haven't done anything because everybody else is doing it right now. I like that it sat for months and months and months and we came back and picked it up. I mean, we changed a couple of small things. But that was that was it. It wasn't like oh my God, we can't have wiggly rails anymore. That does not look cool. It's farther down the line. So that was really good. And then it was getting, getting the work done. And it was getting started. I know it's quite confusing following along our little journey, but we were lucky enough. And I know this doesn't happen every day to be in the temporary space across the street, watching the new space be refurbed like a front row seat. So we were able to reopen when stores reopened early July. And we were able to have that with one in one out for customers and watch the new store get put together, which was incredible. And it meant for speed and for communication, we were a unified team, because I could, I could see something going on a wall and run over and be like not yet, that guy's not finished what he's doing that connection that we all had together and people are able to come over. I mean, I've learned so much about I mean, I don't know if I'll ever do again, actually... I swear I would. But I've learned so much about that side of other people's jobs and Tradesmen and all of this stuff whilst we reopened, but it was insane, but I would do all again...I wouldn't mind. And I really liked having a timeout from the shop to focus on the online, you don't get that if you have a store and a website, you don't have the 24/7 just for digital. So it was it was really fun. It was really fun.

Independent Thinking:

Very clever, very, very smart about how you've kind of shifted the focus and how you can continue to keep people's motivation up, how they can engage with the brand, how you can keep producing content that people are going to want. And I think again, being receptive to your customer tapping into that...like hearing them

Cat, Treen:

They are so valuable, and they are, we are a community so there's like a small business community, then there's a Treen community and like we do really hang out and I realised the other day I messaged someone to say "Listen, I cannot get this stop looking at this image that you've you've shot yourself. Do you mind if we use it on our grid for our Take a Moment series?", the Take a Moment series also started during lockdown because we wanted this kind of repetitive theme that you could come back to and maybe if you missed one, you could catch up on all of them. Then I realised that we have been chatting at length about things in Treen and I didn't even realise this was this person, this artist - Oh my goodness! I'm like bowing down to you, but then you're being like, oh I'm bowing down to you! It was great! which is so there's so many layers to the customer and they really mean everything, everything to us.

Independent Thinking:

Oh, that's wonderful. It before we finish, because I mean you're such an inspiration everything you could do you could do a whole series on how you began your business and how it's evolved! And but I just I'm interested to see you know, What can your customers look forward to next, where you've obviously got an incredible ambition for for the brand, for Treen, for her, for him, for them, and we're we're next what can people look forward to your next steps?

Cat, Treen:

So next for Treen, I mean, a step that we have just put two feet into is menswear which will continue to grow, so tell your tell your guy friends or shop for the men in your life we're so excited to have that there. Oh, I mean horizon were discussing Treen own brand, which is extremely exciting. Discussing building on our lifestyle side of things and how do we you know, what does that look like? Because it's such a broad kind of term. So where does that go and what does that look like - that would also go into cosmetics, that would go into like skincare and things like that as well which is exciting. I've got my little dog Nessie sat next to me so that would fall into that category as well. And another area that I have discussed from day one and have openly asked our customers about if they would be interested in is pre loved it is a huge part, I feel every outfit I have on is a mixture of well, now, Treen and pre loved, and it is part of a sustainable wardrobe; so how we go about mixing that into the business and how it can just meet our customers in the best possible way. And so that's really exciting too. So lots of more layers to the Treen onion! That's kind of what's on our notebooks and in our sight lines right now, which is exciting.

Independent Thinking:

Wonderful. And obviously I'm gearing up for a Christmas like no other I guess in retail as well this year. I mean it's gonna be an interesting next couple of weeks.

Cat, Treen:

Who knows what's gonna happen! it's like we are, the most resilient as in, all of us. Existing right now are the most resilient bunch - like we'll make it work. And Christmas is about, you know, connection and all of that stuff. So I feel confident that brands that are out there and people that are out there and connected like we'll figure something out if we have to be locked down, we'll figure something out. We do a really, really cool campaign that I'm so excited by - the whole team was so, so, so excited by this - that will launch very soon. And I think everyone will want to get behind this. And it's definitely about thinking about other people and giving and just how that looks from another angle. So I'm excited to share that soon.

Independent Thinking:

Oh, wow. So people can keep an eye on your on your socials just to see.

Cat, Treen:

Yeah, yes.

Independent Thinking:

Gorgeous. Well, Cat, you're an absolute powerhouse. I think you're such an inspiration and what a motivational way to start a day. I hope anyone who's listening is listening to this on a Monday morning and thinking, right, how can I smash the day? Get on with it! Thank you. Thank you so much for your time today.

Cat, Treen:

Welcome. Thank you for having me.

Independent Thinking:

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